Later this year I will be coming up to the five years in CH, which also coincides with my five year wedding anniversary. My wife is Swiss. I hold an Aussie passport and a 2-year B permit expiring on this anniversary.

I am not really sure of what happens at the five year mark. No doubt I will have to fill out my Verlangerungsversuch for a new permit, but will it be another B, or do I have to "negotiate" for a C?

Apparently at this time I can "apply" for facilitated naturalisation. No big stress here, because I work, pay tax, and keep on my best behaviour (I am even too scared to exceed the speed limit right now ) Has anyone had any experience with this? I have heard I can expect another two years for this application to be processed.

The only reason I ask is, as many people here have commented, it helps financially (insurances, etc) to have a better residential status.

That's me sorted then. I'd assume you too, even with what the Swiss consider a second-class passport

On the back of that, you're going to wait 10 years for the Niederlassungsbewilligung unless they take into account your marital status. It's all horribly written on the BFM website.....

Hi Aussie,

When my 5 years was up I requested a C pass from my old B pass and was given a new C form application to fill out. I then paid the money and got it in about 5 days. So, you need to ask for teh C form.
Tom

Hi

Just to fill you in... You have an option here. You are entitled on the back of your wife´s status as a CH burger to choose a Swiss national status or a C permit. Normally as a non EU citizen you would need to wait 10 years but as your wife is Swiss you can choose to either have a c permit or to become a swiss citizen. The former is a relatively quick and painless procedure and the latter needs around 6 months a financial commitment and additionally a test of Swissness. The financial commitment is relatively small but of course varies dependent on Gemeinde. The test is relatively straightforward but in a Swiss national language. It is up to you which route you take but you are so to speak in the priviliged position of being able to choose....

Why is there a "choice"? I believe it is possible to obtain a C permit then apply for naturalisation. Most naturalisations are from C Permit holders, oder?

Once you have been married for a period of (don't quote not certain) 3 years you are entitled to nationalise. You need not first have a c permit. You are of course able to have a c permit and never nationalise. There are many reasons why this might not be desired and therefore it is a choice.

Richard

As I understand you have to be married for 5 years to be automatically elligible. I think the marriage route means that they must give it to you, it is possibly a lot cheaper, and they can't make you jump through the usual hoops for it.

Lob Rockster took this route as I understand. Lob - was it expensive?

Despite the fact that it might be cheaper you might also want to check if you will fall foul of the obligations bestowed on Swiss males - military service, or if you are too old you may still have to do 3 weeks per year of civil service. I understand that the penalty for non compliance is another 2% on your tax bill. Since you are still going to be treated like a foreigner whether or not you have a Swiss passport - many simply say "no thanks" - but as Richard said this is a decision you'll have to make yourself.

Since you are Australian you may already know that since 2002 Australia no longer objects to you taking an additional citizenship.

Mark

Does anyone know how long the application process is for facilitated naturalisation from a foreign country? I have dual US and Swiss citizenship, and my husband has dual US and Canadian. We have been married over six years, and he is thinking of applying for Swiss citizenship as I would really like to move back.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Your husband will have to prove the following in his application:

1. 1. Regular holidays spent in Switzerland
      
   2. Close contacts with Swiss associations of Swiss living abroad
      
   3. Close relationships with persons living in Switzerland (especially with the Swiss spouse's relatives and acquaintances)
      
   4. Ability to make oneself understood in a Swiss national language or Swiss dialect

All facilitated naturalisation applications can take up to 2 years in all cases. My advice would be to talk to your nearest Swiss consulate for advice, or the immigration department in Bern directly. It may be possible to commence the application where you are, and then move to Switzerland whilst the application is processing. By the time you are settled in the application will probably be processed. But I am not sure of this.

Regardless of if your husband applies for citizenship or not, he should have no restrictions whatsoever (B-Permit, not subject to quotas). Your move should be dictated by your joint desires and job opportunities at the time.

Please keep us up to date on how much fun you have with this process, as well as your husband's reaction to certain parts of it...

And when you get here - don't forget to put your car insurance in your name, as your husband will have to pay a higher premium for being a foreigner. If he does decide that it is worth it to become a Swiss citizen he should also check that his existing citizenships will not be revoked. I'm guessing you became a dual citizen before you were 18 (i.e. didn't have any choice), but for him it will be a different matter.

I think most reasonable people would guess that if you marry someone you get their citizenship straight away. Unfortunately not the case here...

Good luck with it!

Mark

Sounds as though this will be painful.

My husband is very close to my aunt and uncle in Switzerland, We spend at least two weeks a year in Switzerland and he speaks perfect French (He grew up in Montreal.) So I don't think he could be rejected....but he absolutely does not want to move there on a B permit because he wants to be able to find a job, and most employers seem to require at least a C permit. However, two years to wait seems like a very long time. Does anyone have any experience with how long it takes to get the interview? And then from the interview to acceptance??

The problem is I only speak High German (and its been awhile, so I might be rusty) so it seems I may have trouble finding a job until I learn SchwiezerDuetsch and so it seems we may have to wait here in America. (UGH)

Thanks for your input!

The reason why most employers say "C Permit" only is because all other permit holders are subjected to restrictions, quotas and loads of red tape.

WITH ONE EXCEPTION...

A B-Permit holder who lives together with his/her (CH-citizen) spouse will be no more difficult to employ as a C-Permit holder or Swiss citizen. Your husband just has to make it clear in his job applications that his wife is Swiss, in any case it will be clearly written on the B-Permit. After that it depends on if he is the best applicant for the job.

It sounds like you guys are very eager to move back to Switzerland, don't let a citizenship application get in the way as it won't affect your opportunities here much at all (unless your husband wants to be doctor, lawyer, policeman, or other occupation limited to CH citizens).As for the language, once your immersed in it again you should pick it up quickly.

Here it is the law in French so your husband can read it. I couldn't find it in English.

Prospective employers should treat your husband just as favourably as a C-Permit holder.

This is an interesting comment as there can be no differentiation made by a company between a C permit and an EU B permit. As your husband will have a higher status than EU B then he will have no problems whatsoever and as long as his citizenship application is being processed can even apply for a job with the police unlike c permit holders... For your information he might have to perform civil duties if he is under 35 but this is dependent on the Gemeinde - hey thats new...

Richard

Richard raised a point I raised in an earlier post - there may be disadvantages to becoming a Swiss citizen if you are a male, these would have to be checked (e.g. military / civil service) and potential fines for not doing these. Also, I spoke earlier about possible loss of US or Canadian citizenship - this is also a non-trivial matter. I did some quick googling and saw this:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_778.html

But it would require more research to see if he could retain his US and Canadian citizenships.

As for B vs C permits we had a long discussion on them here:

Permits: What the the advantages of a C permit?

To Richard and litespeed - while what you are saying is technically correct, how it is possible to stop employers putting a CV in the bin because they believe that C permit holders are better than B permit holders?

I think a big problem is that Switzerland has pursued a system of classifying and discriminating against foreigners of different types and statuses for so long that it has become ingrained in peoples' way of thinking (even among foreigners themselves - have you noticed?). So when things finally start opening up and the system "relaxes" a little, the old patterns of behaviour still exist.

Moderator note - for discussions on the specific differences on B vs C we should probably make those on the thread I linked above, not on this post, but we should continue to discuss citizenship issues and permits for spouses on this thread.

Mark

Thank you for clearing up the B vs. c permit...the link was very helpful...Also Canada allows dual citizenships while America technically doesn't. An immigration officer told me, however, that they don't have any tracking abilities and often look the other way unless someone actively renounces there citizenship or acts in a treasonous way.

From what I understand about the naturalisation process it that it will be very similar to mine. My mother was Swiss born and I was born before 1985, so I had to fill out an application and do an interview. Is it correct that the process will be fairly similar??? (If I remember correctly, it took a little over a year to get.) One is called facilitated naturalisation and the other simpliefied naturalisation. Does anyone know the difference??

Thank you all for your help and patience!!
Renata

The US way is similiar to the way Australia used to do it before 2002, but the thing to watch out for is whether the new country where you take citizenship informs the old country that you have taken citizenship. Some might do this, others might not. In the case of Canada they will just ignore that information since they allow dual citizenship, but in the case of the US they may act on the information, so your husband should inform himself thoroughly about that risk beforehand, unless he doesn't care about his US citizenship. As for treason, I wonder what that means these days? Disagreeing with the current administration? Anyway, I'm getting off topic here..

Mark

Yes you are getting off the track... But for your information actually, yes, critizing the US Administration is one reason they might have BUT then they will not let you renounce your citizenship until you have faced the music google Bobby Fisher chess legend and you will see what I mean...

Richard

I think there are only two types of processes, Naturalisation and Facilitated Naturalisation (sometimes called simplified,for the reasons I am about to explain).

Normal naturalisation is a tedious process, as it involves starting at the Gemeinde level, then working its through the Kanton and on to Bern. After that, it has to slowly work its way back again, during which time everybody gets a peek into your private details and the local community can say vote if they like you or not. Your appeal rights here are restricted. Up until now it was often very expensive, however fees have now been capped.

Facilitated naturalisation goes directly to Bern. Kanton and the Gemeinde have objection rights, but for most this is not an issue. You have the right to appeal. In theory it should be quick (approx. 1 year) but with around 10'000 applications per year, there is a backlog. I think speed here depends upon your nationality, background, character, and income.

As for becoming a policeman, that is a cruel irony for me. As soon as I become eligible to apply for citizenship, I am then too old to apply for this occupation here ( I was police for ten years in Oz). On the bright side, it probably counts me out for civil duty....however....

I know a british guy who became naturalised, and suddenly started receiving very large bills for unfilled civil duty, but he was never summonsed to fulfill such duty. When he rang and asked they said "oh, we didn't call you because we didn't need you.". So why then send the bill?

I have a pal who was "lucky" enough to get the Red Pass through marriage. He got divorced but still complains about paying extra to be Swiss (ie. the Zivilschutz "charge").

I'll wait until I am 40 then......