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Old 28.09.2015, 16:46
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Wife left, not announced to commune

Hi all
My wife decided that we should separate and left CH with my two teenagers 6 weeks ago. No formal separation at this point. She did not announce anything to the commune, and I am a little concerned if this could be an issue for us both?
Are there any potential consequences?
Thanks
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Old 28.09.2015, 17:01
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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Hi all
My wife decided that we should separate and left CH with my two teenagers 6 weeks ago. No formal separation at this point. She did not announce anything to the commune, and I am a little concerned if this could be an issue for us both?
Are there any potential consequences?
Thanks
It is her duty to deregister in time. As you are probably jointly liable for quite a few things since you're married, I'd call the commune asap and notify them of her leaving, asking how you should proceed and if her deregistration is your problem at all. This won't change your liability issues in quite a few cases, but better to inform them now than after you have been held responsible for something you both are responsible for without them knowing.

As for joint responsibility for the flat (which you probably rented as a married couple, thus joint responsibility), you can get legally separated and in that procedure you can ask the judge to assign the flat you live in to you only. This will remove her (financial and other) liability for it, but she will not be allowed to do anything with/in it without your permission either.
In a separation procedure the judge also can assign rights to visit/see your kids to each of you for the time being until you pursue divorce.
Also, your landlord has to report it to authorities if a tenant leaves a flat of his, so you need to report this.

Consequences of leaving CH without deregistration - vary by commune, so you really want to ask your commune rather than the EF.
http://www.migraweb.ch/en/themen/alter/rueckkehr/

She can also lose her permit (or might already have done so) by not deregistering.
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Old 28.09.2015, 17:05
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

Thanks, sound advice. We jointly own our house, so that will be a little complicated....
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Old 28.09.2015, 17:11
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

This may help.

https://www.ch.ch/en/matrimonial-regime/
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Old 28.09.2015, 17:13
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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Thanks, sound advice. We jointly own our house, so that will be a little complicated....
If you want to separate, I'd call your district's civil court and go through with the procedure. No matter who owns the place you live in, it can be assigned to one party for the time being - definite assignment only happens in divorce procedures.

But to do things with a clean break and to ensure that you run into as few problems as possible, a) report to the commune ASAP and b) start a separation procedure (know that the status of being separated can always be reversed if you guys get back together, but going through with it at least makes things clear for the time being).

Quotes from other posts by me on the EF:

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In Switzerland, you can get a divorce (regulated in the Swiss Civil Code) if either
a, Art. 111 CC) both spouses jointly apply for divorce and have everything prepared - how they'd like things split up, who should take care of the kids based on reasons 1,2,3,4... etc. (that's the fastest way to get through with it)
b, Art. 112 CC) both spouses jointly apply for divorce and don't have everything prepared (then court will assist you in getting things settled, this will make the procedure longer)
c, Art. 114 CC) one spouse wants divorce and applies for it after having lived outside the other spouse's/the married couple's household for at least 2 years (this will probably take the longest to get settled in court)
d, Art. 115 CC) one spouse wants divorce and applies for it, basing it on inability to sustain the legal relationship with the other spouse. If court agrees with the detrimental nature of the legal (note, not the social, emotional etc.!!!) relationship between the spouses, divorce can be granted.

To file for divorce as a single party, best is to go through a separation procedure (Eheschutz), you can file for it without your spouse using the "Requête de mesures protectrices de l’union conjugale selon art. 172 ss CC" form found here. You don't need a lawyer, neither for separation nor for divorce procedures, though it is highly recommended to get a lawyer for the divorce part if you're not filing jointly and not doing so in a cordial manner with your spouse.

For joint divorce, hand in the form "Requête commune de divorce" from the site I linked above, having filled in the form jointly with your spouse.

Separation procedures regulate what happens between the start of the separation procedure and the end of the divorce procedure.

Divorce procedures regulate what happens after the divorce procedure.

If you don't have sufficient funds to pay for the legal procedures (neither separation nor divorce are free) or think you need a lawyer but can't pay, you need to hand in the form "Requête d'assistance judiciaire" from the link I posted above after having searched for a lawyer on your own.

Lawyers in Geneva can be found here.
The place you need to file the forms at is the civil court of your district, which probably is the Tribunal de première instance in Geneva.

Know that in divorce cases and in separation procedures, the "fault" of the spouses is not relevant in any way. Feelings or not, it is your right to get divorced or separated at any time, if you adhere to the rules (living separately for 2 years before filing, proving inability to continue the legal relationship with spouse, or filing jointly).

I cannot help you with consequences of your divorce in India.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
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Article 115 CC can only be used as basis for a divorce if maintaining the legal relationship between partners is deemed unreasonable for OP by the judge.

If only living together is the problem, OP can apply for separation (Eheschutz) and move out. Then, after 2 years of living in separation, OP can file for divorce (Art. 114). Filing for divorce without waiting for 2 years is only possible if either the parties file jointly or if (as I outlined above) maintaining the legal relationship is deemed unreasonable.

More detailed info on achieving separation here
It isn't necessary for you to have a lawyer for a separation procedure, but in your case, OP, I would recommend it. You can find lawyers in your region by searching for "Anwaltsregister" + [your district/city]
Also, for any injuries you suffer, go to the doctor and get them documented. Give all documentation to your lawyer.
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Seconding Troublawsome - why are you taking care of your husband's stuff? I'd say that's legally his problem but as you're still married and neither legally separated nor divorced (?) it might be more complex.

Not wanting to be vindictive is one thing - but I'd say no matter if you want to pick up the pieces he left behind or not, ask the relevant authorities and the health insurance company about next steps for you and your husband because you won't want to end up in an even bigger pile of problems because you accidentally overlooked something. Probably best to call your commune and tell them what's up, then they can advise you on the full (!) scope of things your husband or you are required to do. Relying on the EF in this instance seems too risky IMO. Don't forget you might run into getting fined for something (or have something else happen) if things aren't done the way the commune/canton/insurance co. wants them done. So better play it safe and contact your commune/health insurance company.

Always remember - there's not being vindictive and there's being a doormat. Make sure this doesn't turn into the latter because your husband doesn't want to deal with things he is obligated to but won't "because my wife'll take care of it" - payments included.

Good luck.
This quote is from the following thread (husband leaving without deregistering): Husband leaving suddenly

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Separation is easily initiated - you need to go to your district's civil court for that (give them, filled in with your details, the last form on this page) and you don't need a lawyer to represent you. If you want a lawyer but can't afford one, and if you can't afford court costs, you can apply for the state to pay for your costs (for the time being, you will have to pay them back when you have enough money!) with the fourth/fifth form on the page I linked to a few lines up.

If you leave here without being separated or divorced, most likely Swiss authorities will consider you married and treat you as such no matter what Australia treats you as. I think to do this cleanly, irrespective of where you were married, you might have to get separated in Switzerland. I don't think you get legally separated in the way Swiss law defines separation by simply leaving Switzerland - which could have financial (and other) consequences.
To make sure you don't leave this country with the authorities considering you married while you consider yourself separated, please seek legal advice. The easiest way to handle the "will both countries consider me separated, I want to be considered so", IMO is getting legally separated by a civil court here in Switzerland.


Info re: separation and divorce

Separation
Regulates the time period left until your divorce, which can be 2 years, less or more.
It regulates the current situation, decisions made can be altered e.g. in a divorce procedure.

Divorce
Possible immediately if applied for jointly, if all issues are amicably solved by the parties.
Possible before 2 years of separation are up if the legal relationship between the parties - which marriage entails - is deemed unbearable for one party by the court.
Possible 2 years after separation (living separately required) if only one party wants the divorce.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 28.09.2015 at 21:08. Reason: added link
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Old 28.09.2015, 18:00
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

I suspect it's not useful as the place the marriage occurred, the assets & the wife are not in CH.
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Old 28.09.2015, 18:14
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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I suspect it's not useful as the place the marriage occurred, the assets & the wife are not in CH.

But if the man starts the process in Switzerland then it cannot be transferred to another jurisdiction without his agreement.
For a man, Switzerland is the best place to divorce because the rules are far more favourable than in, say, the UK
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Old 28.09.2015, 18:18
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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But if the man starts the process in Switzerland then it cannot be transferred to another jurisdiction without his agreement.
For a man, Switzerland is the best place to divorce because the rules are far more favourable than in, say, the UK
If the wife chooses not to cooperate, she still is in theory living in his flat in ZH, the divorce will never occur............ Meanwhile the husband will have to pay medical insurance in CH for his wife & children.

The wife is actually living in the jointly owned property with his children, I think the wife has the upper hand, unless the property is in negative equity.
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Old 28.09.2015, 18:40
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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If the wife chooses not to cooperate, she still is in theory living in his flat in ZH, the divorce will never occur............ Meanwhile the husband will have to pay medical insurance in CH for his wife & children.

The wife is actually living in the jointly owned property with his children, I think the wife has the upper hand, unless the property is in negative equity.
Wife and kids have left so at least it may give him the basis to work out how things will be split if they do go down the divorce path.
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Old 28.09.2015, 18:43
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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Wife and kids have left so at least it may give him the basis to work out how things will be split if they do go down the divorce path.
They are still registered..... so only away from home unless they choose to deregister.
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Old 28.09.2015, 20:17
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

After 3 months (L) or 6 months (B/C) their permits become invalid anyway so not long to wait. And don't forget those nosy neighbours keeping an eye on who's here and who's not.
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Old 28.09.2015, 20:25
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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Meanwhile the husband will have to pay medical insurance in CH for his wife & children.
^^ This!
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Old 28.09.2015, 20:28
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Re: Wife left, not announced to cummune

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After 3 months (L) or 6 months (B/C) their permits become invalid anyway so not long to wait. And don't forget those nosy neighbours keeping an eye on who's here and who's not.
If she chooses not to deregister & fails to co-operate it can get more difficult. She only needs to come to a meeting with a mediator in CH & she can show a flight ticket so was here.... Her mane is probably on the lease so has a right to go to the flat, locks can't be changed.

It's actually much better to try & reach an agreement rather than to try to be clever as it may back fire.

Pretty sure the husband is jointly responsible for debts in CH whilst still married, no doubt she did not leave her bank & credit cards behind. If they have a joint account she could well just help herself.......

NEVER underestimate a woman, in the end they get their way one way or another.
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