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Old 07.10.2015, 21:32
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What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

Hello all,

I study master in Computer science in BeNeFri and hope this is the my last semester, i have my thesis now..

Currently i am working in a company, actually according to contract, it is an internship but i have been regulary working for more than 1 year. and I have B permit.


I am a desktop/mobile application developer but i have also knowledge for web (asp.net/mvc, js,..)

Well, I live in bern and as i heard that migration office gives 6 months to find a job.. But I would like to learn detail.

My questions are;

1- My visa will be expired in the first of february, so how i can extend visa if i completed my education?
2- If they give me 6 months, I have to show again money for cost from my bank account ?
3- I heard that taking a work permit is difficult for foreign (I am not an EU citizen).. What I should consider to have it easier. Because I think that my current boss will be able to help me about this topic but i have not talked to him yet.. First of all i need to know something which will be useful for me.
4- After I have a work permit, I will not need again anymore, just finding job will be enough?

I can speak a bit german (high german) and understand better, i know that i have to improve my german skills... What else?

I am waiting for your replies/advices/comments, specially from people who had this experience earlier..

Thank you.
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Old 07.10.2015, 22:27
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

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Hello all,

I study master in Computer science in BeNeFri and hope this is the my last semester, i have my thesis now..

Currently i am working in a company, actually according to contract, it is an internship but i have been regulary working for more than 1 year. and I have B permit.


I am a desktop/mobile application developer but i have also knowledge for web (asp.net/mvc, js,..)

Well, I live in bern and as i heard that migration office gives 6 months to find a job.. But I would like to learn detail.

My questions are;

1- My visa will be expired in the first of february, so how i can extend visa if i completed my education?
2- If they give me 6 months, I have to show again money for cost from my bank account ?
3- I heard that taking a work permit is difficult for foreign (I am not an EU citizen).. What I should consider to have it easier. Because I think that my current boss will be able to help me about this topic but i have not talked to him yet.. First of all i need to know something which will be useful for me.
4- After I have a work permit, I will not need again anymore, just finding job will be enough?

I can speak a bit german (high german) and understand better, i know that i have to improve my german skills... What else?

I am waiting for your replies/advices/comments, specially from people who had this experience earlier..

Thank you.
1. After you graduate you go to the migration office and ask for a job seekers permit. Whether it will be for 6 months or only for 3 initially I don't know, but you do have up to 6 months to find a job here.

2. I expect so. They'll want to know you have enough money to support yourself while you job hunt.

3. According to this

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...abgaenger.html

you're supposed to be on equal footing with the Swiss/EU nationals, but the job must of of economic/scientific benefit to Switzerland for your employer to get a permission to hire you. If your boss is willing to keep you on I suggest he talks to the migration office to find out how to proceed.

4. I don't quite understand your last question, but even though the rules are more relaxed regarding hiring, as far as I know your permit would be a "tied" one, i.e. to the employer who hired you. If you want to change jobs then it would be difficult.
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Old 07.10.2015, 23:48
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

Thank you for your reply. It is really useful, I also searched something more and it was good for me. Thank you again.

And I found a document that was prepared by EPFL for people who will have swiss diploma.. And It is really great.. I am sharing it

http://carriere.epfl.ch/files/conten...ates%20_EN.pdf

for my 4. question, I do not understand also.. I mean if i have a work permit with a company, I have to continue with them? I mean for example my contract is 2 years but i want to leave after 3 months, so what will happen? I think if i have a work permit, i can seek for another job, cant I?
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Old 08.10.2015, 00:02
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

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Thank you for your reply. It is really useful, I also searched something more and it was good for me. Thank you again.

And I found a document that was prepared by EPFL for people who will have swiss diploma.. And It is really great.. I am sharing it

http://carriere.epfl.ch/files/conten...ates%20_EN.pdf

for my 4. question, I do not understand also.. I mean if i have a work permit with a company, I have to continue with them? I mean for example my contract is 2 years but i want to leave after 3 months, so what will happen? I think if i have a work permit, i can seek for another job, cant I?
An L permit requires permission while a B permit does not for non-EU citizens:

Personnes de pays tiersLes règles suivantes liées au droit du travail s'appliquent aux personnes de pays tiers exerçant une activité lucrative:
  • Autorisation de courte durée L: changement d'emploi et de canton possible avec autorisation (art. 37 al. 1 et art. 38 al. 1 LEtr), imposition à la source.
  • Autorisation de séjour B: changement d'emploi en principe sans autorisation (art. 38 al. 2 LEtr)
http://www.kmu.admin.ch/themen/00208...x.html?lang=fr
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Old 08.10.2015, 00:08
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

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An L permit requires permission while a B permit does not for non-EU citizens:

Personnes de pays tiersLes règles suivantes liées au droit du travail s'appliquent aux personnes de pays tiers exerçant une activité lucrative:
  • Autorisation de courte durée L: changement d'emploi et de canton possible avec autorisation (art. 37 al. 1 et art. 38 al. 1 LEtr), imposition à la source.
  • Autorisation de séjour B: changement d'emploi en principe sans autorisation (art. 38 al. 2 LEtr)
http://www.kmu.admin.ch/themen/00208...x.html?lang=fr
it means I can work for another company after I left from my company?

because i do not understand what is permission for that topic.

thank you
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Old 08.10.2015, 09:16
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

The key words are these:

"Residence permit B: change jobs without permission in principle (Article 38 paragraph 2 LEtr..) And can canton with permission (Article 37 paragraph 2 LEtr..) Granted if the purpose is determined and can be accompanied by other conditions (art. 33 para. 2 Foreign Nationals Act), tax at source."

However, this is unlikely to affect unbalanced as usually a non-EU will get an L permit to start with, not a B, and would need permission to change jobs.

Unbalanced, non-EU nationals are subject to permit quota limits - there are 2,500 B permits and 4,000 L permits available per year. Any employer who wants to hire a non-EU national has to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national first who could do the job. The criteria is outlined here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...zulassung.html

Because priority is given to Swiss/EU nationals when it comes to employment, to get permission from both the canton and federal governments to hire a non-EU means an employer has to meet the conditions outlined above. The process an application goes through is here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...ensablauf.html

Because you will be graduating from a Swiss uni this requirement is relaxed, meaning it's easier for an employer to hire you in that 6 month period. But once you're hired it will be extremely difficult to change jobs while you're on an L permit as this is "tied" to that employer. If any other employer wants to hire you then they would need to go through the non-EU hiring process and prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national.

What may happen is that although you are (I assume) on a student B permit, you'll get an L permit for job hunting and more than likely get an L permit once you find a job. It's very rare to go straight on to a B permit as a non-EU national as these are kept for highly qualified people with several years of experience to back up their skills. L permits are usually for the first two years of employment before you might be able to change to a B permit - but an employer would again have to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national before you'd be allowed to change.

The full text from the Foreign Nationals Act on both types of permit is here:

"4.5.2 Short Permissions (L)
4.5.2.1 Change of employment (art. 55 OASA)
A job change is possible for major reasons. If the job change is requested because he can not reasonably be required to monitor the employment relationship, it is necessary to make it likely that this fact is not due to the behavior of the employee. The authorities will ensure in particular that the alien admitted to Switzerland for a specific purpose does not change activity shortly after, without major reason.
Is considered the change in employment due to go under the orders of another employer, in law or in fact. In the case of rental services in particular, the tenant company changes must be considered a change of employment (see ch. 4.8.4 concerning the temporary work as part of the rental service).
A job change is only permitted if it occurs within the same industry and the same profession.

4.5.3 Residence permits (B)
4.5.3.1 Change of employment (art. 38, para. 2, FNA)
Foreign members of the family of a Swiss citizen or a foreigner holding a permanent residence permit, according to art. 42, para. 1 Foreign Nationals Act and art. 43, para. 1 FNA) can change jobs without seeking permission to do so.
If the residence permit was granted in order to take up employment, the employment change is in principle not subject to authorization.

However, if the residence permit granted in order to exercise a specific job is specifically linked to a condition relating to the labor market, a request for change of employment should be addressed to the competent cantonal authority."

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam...ngen-aug-f.pdf

So no, if you get an L permit you would not be able to change jobs within 3 months - there has to be a major reason to allow you to do so.

If you're lucky enough to get a "tied" B permit then it may be possible to change, but iirc both the new and old employer have to agree to this - which is something the old employer may not want to do of course - and if the new job is situated in another canton then both the old and new cantons also have to agree to it as being a non-EU you have to live in the same canton as your workplace is situated unless you get permission to live elsewhere/stay where you are.

An "open" B permit where you are allowed to change jobs/locations is unlikely to happen for you until you've been employed here for 5 years.
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Old 08.10.2015, 20:03
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

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The key words are these:

"Residence permit B: change jobs without permission in principle (Article 38 paragraph 2 LEtr..) And can canton with permission (Article 37 paragraph 2 LEtr..) Granted if the purpose is determined and can be accompanied by other conditions (art. 33 para. 2 Foreign Nationals Act), tax at source."

However, this is unlikely to affect unbalanced as usually a non-EU will get an L permit to start with, not a B, and would need permission to change jobs.

Unbalanced, non-EU nationals are subject to permit quota limits - there are 2,500 B permits and 4,000 L permits available per year. Any employer who wants to hire a non-EU national has to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national first who could do the job. The criteria is outlined here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...zulassung.html

Because priority is given to Swiss/EU nationals when it comes to employment, to get permission from both the canton and federal governments to hire a non-EU means an employer has to meet the conditions outlined above. The process an application goes through is here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...ensablauf.html

Because you will be graduating from a Swiss uni this requirement is relaxed, meaning it's easier for an employer to hire you in that 6 month period. But once you're hired it will be extremely difficult to change jobs while you're on an L permit as this is "tied" to that employer. If any other employer wants to hire you then they would need to go through the non-EU hiring process and prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national.

What may happen is that although you are (I assume) on a student B permit, you'll get an L permit for job hunting and more than likely get an L permit once you find a job. It's very rare to go straight on to a B permit as a non-EU national as these are kept for highly qualified people with several years of experience to back up their skills. L permits are usually for the first two years of employment before you might be able to change to a B permit - but an employer would again have to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national before you'd be allowed to change.

The full text from the Foreign Nationals Act on both types of permit is here:

"4.5.2 Short Permissions (L)
4.5.2.1 Change of employment (art. 55 OASA)
A job change is possible for major reasons. If the job change is requested because he can not reasonably be required to monitor the employment relationship, it is necessary to make it likely that this fact is not due to the behavior of the employee. The authorities will ensure in particular that the alien admitted to Switzerland for a specific purpose does not change activity shortly after, without major reason.
Is considered the change in employment due to go under the orders of another employer, in law or in fact. In the case of rental services in particular, the tenant company changes must be considered a change of employment (see ch. 4.8.4 concerning the temporary work as part of the rental service).
A job change is only permitted if it occurs within the same industry and the same profession.

4.5.3 Residence permits (B)
4.5.3.1 Change of employment (art. 38, para. 2, FNA)
Foreign members of the family of a Swiss citizen or a foreigner holding a permanent residence permit, according to art. 42, para. 1 Foreign Nationals Act and art. 43, para. 1 FNA) can change jobs without seeking permission to do so.
If the residence permit was granted in order to take up employment, the employment change is in principle not subject to authorization.

However, if the residence permit granted in order to exercise a specific job is specifically linked to a condition relating to the labor market, a request for change of employment should be addressed to the competent cantonal authority."

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam...ngen-aug-f.pdf

So no, if you get an L permit you would not be able to change jobs within 3 months - there has to be a major reason to allow you to do so.

If you're lucky enough to get a "tied" B permit then it may be possible to change, but iirc both the new and old employer have to agree to this - which is something the old employer may not want to do of course - and if the new job is situated in another canton then both the old and new cantons also have to agree to it as being a non-EU you have to live in the same canton as your workplace is situated unless you get permission to live elsewhere/stay where you are.

An "open" B permit where you are allowed to change jobs/locations is unlikely to happen for you until you've been employed here for 5 years.
Thank you for your detail reply, I really appreciated .. Now i understand better..

I have a question..

My visa will be expires first of february, but I have chance to extend my study a few months, then I will be able to still registered at the university and will got a B permit.

For example, If they extend my visa for 1 year or 6 months, I will still have B permit and When I finish my thesis after 1 month from extended residence permit like in march,so that I will be completed my education And that time I will still have 5 months or 11 months with B permit..

And If I find a job, what will happen? It will continue with B permit ? or what else? And this situation is good for me? or I should graduate 1 month before february..?

I hope that i am clear..
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Old 08.10.2015, 20:20
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

It will make no difference to your B permit if you extend your studies. Once you graduate it effectively becomes invalid since you're not a student any more. So any remaining months on it would be useless to you. You would need to either register as a graduate job seeker, already have a job lined up that's been approved and you could go straight into or plan to leave the country by the time your current permit expires.

Don't think you can get around the system. The Swiss have already thought of these things. Graduate, get a job seeker's permit and hopefully you'll find something before the 6 months is up.
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Old 08.10.2015, 20:29
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

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It will make no difference to your B permit if you extend your studies. Once you graduate it effectively becomes invalid since you're not a student any more. So any remaining months on it would be useless to you. You would need to either register as a graduate job seeker, already have a job lined up that's been approved and you could go straight into or plan to leave the country by the time your current permit expires.

Don't think you can get around the system. The Swiss have already thought of these things. Graduate, get a job seeker's permit and hopefully you'll find something before the 6 months is up.
Ohh I see, so the best thing is that I should be graduate early as much as possible..


Thank you for your all replies, if you have any advice, it will be really great for me. I have learnt many things to prepare this situation and now i know that what i will say to my boss and i know that what he should do..
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Old 08.10.2015, 20:48
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

Get your boss to have a look at the Foreign Nationals Act, Section 4.4.7 which governs the hiring of graduate students. That may help too. The German version is here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/data/bfm/rechtsgrundlagen/weisungen/auslaender/weisungen-aug-d.pdf

He can also ask at the cantonal migration office to see what they say.
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Old 08.10.2015, 21:22
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

thank you for the link, it seems quite useful..
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Old 09.10.2015, 13:04
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

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Get your boss to have a look at the Foreign Nationals Act, Section 4.4.7 which governs the hiring of graduate students. That may help too. The German version is here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/data/bfm/rechtsgrundlagen/weisungen/auslaender/weisungen-aug-d.pdf

He can also ask at the cantonal migration office to see what they say.
one more question..

as u said, when i have a joob seeker visa, it will be permit L, so and they will consider me in quota for permit L right?

secondly, how the quota will be filled? I mean If i apply a job in january what will happen? or in february or in march?.. What are the differences? And each canton has a limited quota? Like bern has 500 in 3500? and it works like first come first out?

I think its a good question
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Old 09.10.2015, 13:38
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

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one more question..

as u said, when i have a joob seeker visa, it will be permit L, so and they will consider me in quota for permit L right?

secondly, how the quota will be filled? I mean If i apply a job in january what will happen? or in february or in march?.. What are the differences? And each canton has a limited quota? Like bern has 500 in 3500? and it works like first come first out?

I think its a good question
I don't know if job seeker L permits fall under the non-EU work quota.

The quotas are set at the beginning of the year and issued until they are exhausted. At June 30, 2015, 48% of the L and 52% of the B permits for non-EU citizens had been issued. See this document, p. 13:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/dam/data/bf...15-06-q2-d.pdf

According to this NZZ article, 1/2 of the non-EU permits are reserved by the Bund and 1/2 are distributed to the cantons. If a canton runs out, it goes to the Bund for an additional supply (until they are exhausted at the Bund level). This is apparently a common practice in Ct. Basel and Zurich which need more permits than they are allocated:

http://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/kampf-u...fte-1.18480871
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Old 09.10.2015, 13:39
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

No. Because you've graduated from a Swiss uni the quota criteria doesn't apply for those 6 months. That's the whole point of this, non-EU graduates are put on the same hiring criteria as Swiss/EU nationals pretty much. So an employer doesn't have to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national, but the position being offered to you must be of economic/scientific benefit to Switzerland. If it doesn't do this then you won't be granted a permit.

It's not a guarantee that you'll get hired as a graduate here, but it does make it easier.
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Old 09.10.2015, 14:06
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

@Mullhollander, thank you for your explanation, as @Medea Fleecestealer said the quota will not be applied to me.

@Medea Fleecestealer, As I understand you, i do not need to consider quota.. the important thing is that "economic/scientific benefit"

But now I am very confused .. I was thinking that my employee has to publiis some job offers in newspaper or in labor market or etc. After if he cant find anyone, I can apply that job and he must to prove that nobody is fit for this position exept me..

But now I understand that is not important. I will find a job (not need to be in labor) and if this job provides benefist for switzerland, i will have a work permit?

So which is true?

Second question.. I am developing mobile application at work and I dont know if it is ok for those conditions.. What are the criterias of "economic/scientific benefit" ?

Thank you so much
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Old 09.10.2015, 14:27
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

No, he doesn't necessarily have to advertise, that's one of the things he has to do if you came under the non-EU hiring criteria - which you don't at the moment.

As for what consists an economic/scientific benefit to Switzerland only the Swiss authorities can tell you that. Which is why your boss needs to speak with them about the possibility of hiring you when you graduate. He can tell them what he has in mind, they can say whether they think it would be enough to get you a permit. Each application is an individual one so there's no criteria as such laid down.

Get him to go over the relevant parts of the Foreign Nationals Act, talk to the cantonal migration office and then hopefully he can put forward a job offer that will fit the bill to hire you.
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Old 09.10.2015, 15:25
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Re: What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

you are really a great person. Thank you for all your attention.. If I have a chance,someday I want to take you dinner
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