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Old 28.10.2015, 13:13
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Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

My case is little different. My EU spouse (French) doesn’t have much work experience and it is me (NON-EU) who has being supporting my EU spouse for years. Nature of job and salary which I get were enough for me to support my family so she didn’t have to work. We have never lived in any EU scountry before as well. Keeping this in mind what are our options to live and work in Switzerland through EU Free movement. Everyone out here is saying that your EU spouse needs to get an employment first before his or her Non EU third national spouse get the residence permit. But in my case it is simply not possible as I doubt that my spouse will get a job easily because of non experience for years.

But on other hand I have very good experience in IT, investment banking domain and feel confident to land a job in about 3 months and I know that with the salary in the domain I work can support my family.


My questions

1) Is there any way, I as a NON EU spouse eligible to apply for job during the first three months along with my EU spouse? What if an employer is ready to give me an employment, can I get the work permit based on family member of EU national in spite of my EU spouse has not got a job yet? Will the Cantonal authority restrict saying that I have to wait EU spouse has got job contract.
2) If my EU spouse is not get a job in three months can I get a work permit, if we have an apartment to stay and prove that we have sufficient balance in bank. If so what is the minimum amount. Is 30K CHF sufficient to get a work permit.? Remember we are applying as EU free movement and not as a Third country national.
3) Do people rent their apartment if we don’t have employment contract in first three months?

If for every question if the answer in NO does that means we should close thinking about living and working to Switzerland once and for all. I would not have thought about living and working here if we were all third national. But our case is different as we are family member of EU. There is an opportunity and why not use it?


I have posted these questions before but I have got conflicting report as some says that both spouse and EU spouse can register and both can look for job at same time. But some are saying that you both can register but the NON EU spouse cannot work unless the EU spouse gets a job.

All I am trying to find a solution is how a family member of EU can work before the EU National gets the job if they all enter into Switzerland together. There should be some way? I know Switzerland is not a part of EU but I know in principle they have agreed with EU free movement. I also know things are going to change and they are going to bring in the restrictions soon, but we still have have some time explore the options.
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Old 28.10.2015, 14:00
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

A non-EU spouse is eligible for the same permit as his/her EU spouse according to this law firm document:

http://www.geissmannlegal.ch/fileadm...01.07.2013.pdf

- Also, as noted in this document, until 2008 the non-EU spouse could only move to Switzerland to be with his/her spouse if he/she had a permit in an EU country. This was ruled invalid in 2008 by an EU court in the "Metock" decision and was subsequently accepted by Switzerland.

So, if your EU spouse obtains an L (or B), you would be eligible for an L (or B).

Edit:
The rule regarding "sufficient financial resources" is as follows:
"Die finanziellen Mittel werden als ausreichend beurteilt, wenn sie den Ansatz überschreiten, der nach Schweizerischem Recht Anspruch auf Fürsorgeleistungen gibt. Massgebend in diesem Zusammenhang sind die Ansätze der Schweizerischen Konferenz der Sozialhilfe (SKOS-Richtlinien)."

You should review the SKOS guidelines to determine how much that is in CHF.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/content/dam...staetige-d.pdf
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Old 28.10.2015, 14:23
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

You keep trying to make out your case is different, but it isn't.

Your wife needs to be the main permit holder for you to be able to work here without having to go through the non-EU hiring rules. This means she has to show she can financially support you as her dependent. Whether 30k will be enough I don't know, but she would still have to look for a job otherwise all you both have is a residence permit.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/content/dam...nnachzug-e.pdf

Yes you may be able to rent a place before she/you finds work, but it's entirely up to the landlord/agency whether or not they will rent to you. It will also depend on how much demand there is for housing: Geneva, Lausanne, Zurich, etc, will have many people chasing one property so landlords/agencies are unlikely to choose you who have no jobs over other applicants who do.
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Old 28.10.2015, 14:28
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

The SKOS guidelines require a minimum of CHF 1'509 per month for two people. See p. 60, chart B.2.2 at this linked document:

http://skos.ch/uploads/media/2015_SK...komplett-d.pdf

If you have less than this amount available to you, then you would in theory be eligible for social welfare. This would mean that you would be asked to leave the country.

The CHF 30'000 figure has been mentioned several times on EF but I have not found third-part documented support for it.

Also, if you and your spouse are eligible to live in France, possibly you could consider that as a Plan B. After six months with a French permit as a non-EU citizen, you should be eligible for a Swiss G Grenzgänger permit and could work in Switzerland.

Since your spouse is French, I would presume she reads French. Swiss Federal government publications are required to be in French and she could assist you to understand the permit situation in Switzerland.
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Old 28.10.2015, 14:30
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

Hi there,

Based on my experience your wife will have to work a minimum number of hours per week in order for her and your family to receive the standard work/residency permits.

I (non-EU) moved here with an English husband and we both worked for 5 years. Both his contract and our permits expired after 5 years, so he took an interim teaching position at a University while he looked for other work. Meanwhile, I had a permanent contract and a salary that could support both of us.

Renewing our permits was a nightmare. His teaching contract only mentioned classroom time and not prep time, meeting with students, marking projects, etc., so the authorities rejected our permit renewals based on the fact that the EU permit holder was only officially "working" for a few hours a week. The University eventually provided a revised contract showing the actual amount of work done (not just teaching time) but by the time our permits were sorted the semester had finished, my husband had gone on unemployment, and then found a new job. The total household income never entered into the discussion. The thing was that we were here on EU work permits and the EU person had to be working at a certain percentage with a certain income; it was irrelevant that he could have remained a househusband while I went to work and paid the bills.

This might not be something you were hoping to hear, but I do think that in order to move here both your and your wife will need to be working, or, you will need to find an employer willing to jump through the hoops of hiring you as a skilled non-EU worker.
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Last edited by HeatherM; 29.10.2015 at 23:54.
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Old 28.10.2015, 14:39
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

why not get french citizenship first?
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Old 28.10.2015, 14:56
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

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why not get french citizenship first?
Because he's country shopping and France isn't so high on the list.
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Old 28.10.2015, 22:57
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

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Also, if you and your spouse are eligible to live in France, possibly you could consider that as a Plan B. After six months with a French permit as a non-EU citizen, you should be eligible for a Swiss G Grenzgänger permit and could work in Switzerland .
Not sure that is going to work either. Non EU are not eligible for G permits without hoop jumping.
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Old 28.10.2015, 23:27
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

Then again, getting into France may be more difficult than getting into Switzerland as a trailing spouse!

https://www.migreat.com/en/family-re...in-france-s184

https://www.migreat.com/en/how-much-...quirement-a156
(Again, here it looks as though it would be considered on your wife's earnings, as you would not be receiving an income from your country)

http://www.consulfrance-montreal.org...se-of-a-French

And you will need to speak a reasonable level of French before you can get a visa to enter the country.
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Old 28.10.2015, 23:40
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

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Not sure that is going to work either. Non EU are not eligible for G permits without hoop jumping.
Yes, it would be difficult. These are the requirement for a non-EU citizen to obtain a G permit:

"The following conditions must be fulfilled to acquire a cross-border commuters permit (for non-EU):
  • Permanent residence in the neighbouring country
  • Resident for at least six months in the neighbouring foreign border zone
  • Priority for nationals is checked
  • Salary and conditions of employment usual in the region and sector."
http://www.awa.zh.ch/internet/volksw...nzgaenger.html
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Old 28.10.2015, 23:44
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

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Then again, getting into France may be more difficult than getting into Switzerland as a trailing spouse!

https://www.migreat.com/en/family-re...in-france-s184

https://www.migreat.com/en/how-much-...quirement-a156
(Again, here it looks as though it would be considered on your wife's earnings, as you would not be receiving an income from your country)

http://www.consulfrance-montreal.org...se-of-a-French

And you will need to speak a reasonable level of French before you can get a visa to enter the country.
Bingo!
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Old 29.10.2015, 08:26
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

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Yes, it would be difficult. These are the requirement for a non-EU citizen to obtain a G permit:

"The following conditions must be fulfilled to acquire a cross-border commuters permit (for non-EU):


  • Permanent residence in the neighbouring country
  • Resident for at least six months in the neighbouring foreign border zone
  • Priority for nationals is checked
  • Salary and conditions of employment usual in the region and sector."
http://www.awa.zh.ch/internet/volksw...nzgaenger.html
That's what I couldn't find Mullhollander. I thought there was something about permanent residency in the other country, but couldn't find it. And by permanent EUMember they mean the Carte de Resident Permanent. To qualify for this you have to have lived in France for at least 5 years.

https://www.migreat.com/en/what-are-...e-permits-s133

So you would not be able to get a Swiss G permit for at least 5 years, maybe longer if you moved to France.
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Old 29.10.2015, 19:29
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

I think from the answers from everyone it seems non-eu family member of EU do not have the authority to work till the EU spouse starts working.

But the EU freedom of movement says differently. This is how I am interpreting. It can be wrong.

Article 6(1) says: “Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.” (Article 6(2) extends this also to the third country national family members.)

So from arrival in Switzerland the EU citizen exercises a right of residence for the first three months whether he or she is working or not. There are no conditions on this residence for the first three months. The person’s third country national family members, therefore, are entitled to work during this first three month period.
Article 7 Directive 2004/38 says that EU citizens have a right of residence after the three month period where they are workers, work seekers or self-employed persons or where they are self-sufficient. The source of self sufficient can be the income generated by the NON-EU spouse.

In sum, third country national family members of EU citizens exercising treaty rights in the Switzerland are entitled to take employment in the Switzerland as soon as they arrive (with their EU national principal). They are entitled to continue to work so long as their EU national principal is exercising treaty rights.
To assess whether an EU national is self-sufficient, he or she only needs to show that there are sufficient resources available. There are no requirements whatsoever as to their origin so these resources can equally be from the employment income of a spouse or other family member or from anyone else

I can only verify if someone in the forum is in same boat as me.

Thanks
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Old 29.10.2015, 19:48
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

EU freedom of movement is EU freedom of movement. Switzerland is not EU
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Old 29.10.2015, 20:04
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

My suggestion to the OP is that he contact a Swiss immigration attorney. Here's a list of firms that practice in this area:

http://www.hg.org/law-firms/immigrat...nd/zurich.html

Good luck!
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Old 29.10.2015, 20:36
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

The key word being residence. And you would do better to refer to the Swiss Foreign Nationals Act than the EU one.

"Art. 46 Employment of spouses and children

The spouse and children of a Swiss national or of a person with a permanent residence (C) permit or a residence (B) permit (Art. 42-44) may work on a salaried or self-employed basis anywhere in Switzerland."

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html

You will have neither of these until your wife finds a job. The best you will get will be an L permit after the initial 3 months which allows you to reside here with your wife, but does not include work rights. Your wife's L permit will not include work rights either until she produces an employment contract. If it is for less than a year then the work right would be added to her L permit, but still not allow you to work, or one which runs for over a year to qualify for a B permit. THEN you will get the same permit as hers, i.e. a B permit which allows you to work - and without an employer having the hassle of going through the non-EU hiring rules to be able to employ you. You will already have that right as a dependent of a B permit holder.

I refer you to HeatherM's personal experience and can only suggest you come here and try it for yourself. You'll soon find out who's right and who's wrong.
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Old 30.10.2015, 08:16
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

Thank you all for valuable information’s.

It seems the EU national have to work and period should be more than 12 months and then only the NON-EU spouse are eligible to get work permit. In my case it is simply not possible to move to Switzerland as my EU spouse can’t get a job easily and we cannot spend our money for months living there till she gets a job.

I don’t think I will go through the route of getting permit as NON-EU national as I don’t think I am that exceptional.

However I will try contacting some of the lawyers through the link provided and see what is their take on my situations.

All I was interested in living and working in Switzerland was that this country is highly rated in best place to live, happiness index, good quality of life, safety, life satisfactions, high salary, good schooling systems etc.

So lets see how it turn out
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Old 30.10.2015, 09:56
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

Hi,

I forgot to mention only skill my EU spouse have is she is yoga teacher. Does anyone know how easy is to get a job on that basis.?
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Old 30.10.2015, 10:08
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

Hi EU Member,

I currently work with a Brazilian lady. Her husband is German and they moved to Switzerland early May. Both actively were looking for work, she found a job first, her husband is still looking now. She told me she got an L-permit and once her husband finds a job I guess they will move over to a b-permit. Everything seemed to work out fine for them, they also managed to an apartment, phone contracts etc.
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Old 30.10.2015, 10:14
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Re: Non-EU spouse of EU economically active

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Hi,

I forgot to mention only skill my EU spouse have is she is yoga teacher. Does anyone know how easy is to get a job on that basis.?
Job seekers in Switzerland commonly search for jobs on internet job boards. Here's a list:

http://aso.ch/en/consultation/back-t...-to-find-a-job

Self-help is appreciated by many EF members and many practice it themselves.

Last edited by Mullhollander; 30.10.2015 at 10:25.
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