Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19.11.2015, 21:40
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
reddog has no particular reputation at present
Does a C permit really help in the job market

My B permit is coming up to the time when I can convert to the C permit.

I am also about to start looking for a new job.

Will a C permit really make a difference in the job market? Anecdotally I have heard it can make a difference, and there are also jobs open to you that B permit holders cannot apply for (what are these jobs?).

On the other hand, in my work place I have hardly seen any evidence of it making a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19.11.2015, 21:46
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,716
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,029 Times in 6,254 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
My B permit is coming up to the time when I can convert to the C permit.

I am also about to start looking for a new job.

Will a C permit really make a difference in the job market? Anecdotally I have heard it can make a difference, and there are also jobs open to you that B permit holders cannot apply for (what are these jobs?).

On the other hand, in my work place I have hardly seen any evidence of it making a difference.
If your from most EU countries none at all.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19.11.2015, 21:46
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
(what are these jobs?).
Government jobs
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19.11.2015, 22:04
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 737
Groaned at 328 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 1,374 Times in 546 Posts
idefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of manyidefix has earned the respect of many
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Also you pay less tax as a C permit compared to a B (if taxed at source)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19.11.2015, 22:07
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,020
Groaned at 87 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 3,040 Times in 1,558 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
Also you pay less tax as a C permit compared to a B (if taxed at source)
Isn´t that dependent on where you live? I think I read complaints from people paying up more on a C permit.
But you can deduct more than being taxed at source
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19.11.2015, 23:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,460
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 2,220 Times in 820 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

From the perspective of an employer, the administration of that "taxed at source" is an extra overhead. The employer has to have clerical staff registering all the less-than-C-permit staff, and declaring their anticipated incomes, then their real ones, paying in those taxes, etc. And there are many different tax categories, so someone on the employer's side has to figure all that out.

Therefore, anyone who has a C permit or Swiss nationality brings a much lower administrative burden, since the employer has nothing to do with the employee's tax.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 20.11.2015, 12:54
starmir's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kanton Zurich
Posts: 226
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 189 Times in 90 Posts
starmir has slipped a little
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
Therefore, anyone who has a C permit or Swiss nationality brings a much lower administrative burden, since the employer has nothing to do with the employee's tax.
I have a B permit and am not taxed at source... so not sure this is a valid argument
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20.11.2015, 13:18
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,967
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,243 Times in 5,007 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
Also you pay less tax as a C permit compared to a B (if taxed at source)
Not the case. You may well pay more.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20.11.2015, 18:32
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 943
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 452 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
Will a C permit really make a difference in the job market? Anecdotally I have heard it can make a difference, and there are also jobs open to you that B permit holders cannot apply for (what are these jobs?).
From what I've seen is any difference is principally psychological. Most ABC1 foreigners come to Switzerland, stay for two or three years then move on. If you've stayed long enough to get C status, then you're probably here for the long haul. This can be more attractive for some employers who would prefer to have employees stay on longer term.
Quote:
View Post
The employer has to have clerical staff registering all the less-than-C-permit staff, and declaring their anticipated incomes, then their real ones, paying in those taxes, etc. And there are many different tax categories, so someone on the employer's side has to figure all that out.
From what I understand, most Swiss payroll software does that automatically for you. There's little or no extra work involved.

Also, as starmir pointed out, not all B permit workers pay tax at source. For example, if you earn over 120k (I think) p.a. you do your own tax declaration like the Swiss or those with a C permit.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Aeneas for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 20.11.2015, 21:10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 349
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 258 Times in 155 Posts
ThomasSSS has earned the respect of manyThomasSSS has earned the respect of manyThomasSSS has earned the respect of many
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
Also, as starmir pointed out, not all B permit workers pay tax at source. For example, if you earn over 120k (I think) p.a. you do your own tax declaration like the Swiss or those with a C permit.
In my experience, the employer still withholds tax as an approximate payment, and then you settle up with the government based on the the full declaration. So in terms of the administrative burden on the employer, I don't think there is a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20.11.2015, 21:38
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,716
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,029 Times in 6,254 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
From the perspective of an employer, the administration of that "taxed at source" is an extra overhead. The employer has to have clerical staff registering all the less-than-C-permit staff, and declaring their anticipated incomes, then their real ones, paying in those taxes, etc. And there are many different tax categories, so someone on the employer's side has to figure all that out.

Therefore, anyone who has a C permit or Swiss nationality brings a much lower administrative burden, since the employer has nothing to do with the employee's tax.
It's very easy, I worked for several very small companies 3-20 employees & they all could handle the tax aspect of a B permits in a couple of minutes a month.

If the employer can't figure it out then the person is really thick.

G permits also have tax deducted, there are no shortage of cross border workers.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 26.11.2015, 23:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,181
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 76 Times in 71 Posts
danny has earned some respectdanny has earned some respect
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post

Therefore, anyone who has a C permit or Swiss nationality brings a much lower administrative burden, since the employer has nothing to do with the employee's tax.

True but that is not as big an advantage as you make it out to be. A valid B works fine.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.11.2015 at 23:04. Reason: fixed quoting
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 28.11.2015, 15:32
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,460
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 2,220 Times in 820 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
True but that is not as big an advantage as you make it out to be. A valid B works fine.
Yes, I think that the extent to which the extra paperwork is considered a burden - or not - is probably a function of the size of the company and of the bureaucratic ability of the owner. A business used to employing lots of people, of whom many have a B permit or less, or a business which is in itself about IT, will of course have a standardized IT solution all set up. Smaller employers (small and medium-sized enterprises) who don't have the resources (financial, and in terms of staff) to run such automated salary programmes, will be more likely to find the extra administrative steps troublesome.

Switzerland has many, many so-called KMU (kleine und mittlere Unternehmen = small and medium-sized businesses) which run very well and get by without any HR/personnel management department at all. These include, for example, garages, bakers, seamstresses, out-patient nursing, services providing child-care or care of the aged at home, or of dogs, cleaning firms, removal services, small shops, restaurants, doctors and physiotherapists, carpenters, painters, electricians and all sorts of other trades, etc.

For many of those it is still just the boss/owner or, if there is one, the bookkeeper, who sits down at the end of the month to pay out the salaries. For such a company the administration each month can be a real burden. This need not be the case, as fatmanfilms has experienced, but certainly I can think of several KMU owners I know personally who can each run his/her small business very well, but who would be totally unable – be it for lack of academic ability or for lack of command of German – to wade through the laws and procedures of source-tax, to understand them and get it right. They know this and just play it safe and always employ only people with Swiss nationality or those with a C permit.

For large employers (or for small ones with a certain IT base), where everything is automated, I agree, the B or C is unlikely to make any significant administrative difference. In such cases, a C only goes, perhaps, to show more stability or commitment, as Aeneas has said.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 28.11.2015, 15:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nyon
Posts: 1,823
Groaned at 61 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,118 Times in 831 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
From what I've seen is any difference is principally psychological. Most ABC1 foreigners come to Switzerland, stay for two or three years then move on. If you've stayed long enough to get C status, then you're probably here for the long haul. This can be more attractive for some employers who would prefer to have employees stay on longer term.

From what I understand, most Swiss payroll software does that automatically for you. There's little or no extra work involved.

Also, as starmir pointed out, not all B permit workers pay tax at source. For example, if you earn over 120k (I think) p.a. you do your own tax declaration like the Swiss or those with a C permit.
I've never done it .. 3 years tax at source so far.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 28.11.2015, 15:53
HIAO's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Bellevue
Posts: 673
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1,585 Times in 429 Posts
HIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
I've never done it .. 3 years tax at source so far.
I speak only for Geneva, which has a chf 500k limit for self declaration.

Self declaration can still be needed for some categories of people taxed at source.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28.11.2015, 16:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nyon
Posts: 1,823
Groaned at 61 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,118 Times in 831 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

I'm in VD though.. I've even asked the tax office and an accountant .. They both said don't bother unless somebody asks me to do it.

Quote:
View Post
I speak only for Geneva, which has a chf 500k limit for self declaration.

Self declaration can still be needed for some categories of people taxed at source.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03.12.2015, 12:16
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
DenisK has no particular reputation at present
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

You get a better shot at government positions, but generally speaking given the fact that a C-permit allows you to stay in CH indefinitely, you become more attractive for anybody who is looking to hire you permanently. When considering people with (only) a B permit, there is always some level of speculation / uncertainty.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06.12.2015, 22:00
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
rahul7781 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
I've never done it .. 3 years tax at source so far.
Is it not like, if you earn over 120k, Tax-office will send you tax form to fill in?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06.12.2015, 22:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Nyon
Posts: 1,823
Groaned at 61 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,118 Times in 831 Posts
John_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond reputeJohn_H has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
Is it not like, if you earn over 120k, Tax-office will send you tax form to fill in?
It could be the Geneva thing .. I work in GE and live in VD .. I don't get 500k, the GE limit .. well who knows after all the weekends I've worked this year

But like I say, i checked with the VD tax office and they were not interested.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07.12.2015, 10:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,559
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,809 Times in 880 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does a C permit really help in the job market

Quote:
View Post
It could be the Geneva thing .. I work in GE and live in VD .. I don't get 500k, the GE limit .. well who knows after all the weekends I've worked this year

But like I say, i checked with the VD tax office and they were not interested.
This Canton Vaud "Welcome" brochure for foreigners says that B permit holders are subject to ordinary taxation beginning at incomes in excess of CHF 120'000 p.A. See p. 74 under Withholding Taxes:

"B permit holders whose salary exceeds CHF 120'000.- and C permit holders are not subjected to withholding taxes and are therefore required to fill in only an ordinary tax return."

http://www.vd.ch/fileadmin/user_uplo...nglais_web.pdf
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
c permit, employment, jobs, permit




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What does the Market Need? blizard Business & entrepreneur 14 07.12.2013 16:42
Chinese Language in the (business) Job Market Alex W Employment 12 28.11.2012 18:29
Windows Server Engineering - What is the market really like? nickatbasel Employment 5 26.11.2012 18:36
Some really bad news from the Viadukt market (ZH) grumpygrapefruit General off-topic 1 04.01.2012 18:57
I really need help to find a job as chemist AndrzejM Jobs wanted 8 24.03.2010 10:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0