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Old 24.11.2015, 16:14
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Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

My parents from Spain come here often to spend sometime with us. Normally, they stay for couple of months and they go back...


Unfortunately, last time they came in August, my father fell seriously ill and we decided to start treatment here. I got a B permit for him and a medical insurance, so that he could proceed with his treatment..


We were not aware about the necessity for my mom to get the B permit, too.. As we thought she could go out after 90 days for few days and return.. Now I realized that the maximum stay is 90 days in a 180 days period!! So, she has now overstayed for 20 days...


Does someone know what is the implication of this and any suggestions as to what to do next???


Thanks
Susana
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Old 24.11.2015, 16:28
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

How is your dad now- would it be possible for them to go back?

I would go straight to the Contrôle des Habitants of your Gemeinde and tell them exactly what happened, and take a medical certificate or ask your GP or Consultant/oncologist, etc- it they can phone her/him to confirm the seriousness of the situation.
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Old 24.11.2015, 16:31
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

Not a lot as EU passports aren't checked at the border. I assume your father is still in hospital - if so for how much longer? If he's still going to need treatment for a while I'd simply go down to your gemeinde admin office and explain the situation, that you didn't realise your mother needed a permit too and could she now apply for one. So long as you're able to show you can support them both financially hopefully the gemeinde will allow her to have a permit.

If they're non-EU nationals though then it's a bit more serious. Yes I assume she has a residence permit for Spain, but even so she's limited to the 90 days in, 90 days out rule. Again I suggest talking to gemeinde and explaining the situation and see if she can get a permit until your father is well enough to travel home. Exceptions can be made for serious medical issues/problems.
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Old 24.11.2015, 16:34
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

Imho no real problem.


Already well done that you asked for a permit for your father.


As I understand it from your profile, you and your parents are EU. Which means that in case you think it could be useful to get a permit for your mother, too, you could just show you have sufficient funds for a living in CH.
But again, also if it's a bit off the records,
with regards to EUs authorities don't care that much. Who would even know for how long your mother is in the country?
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Old 24.11.2015, 17:34
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

My father is still in treatment, and it will go on at least until Jan-Feb...
Hopefully, they could return after that...
We are all EU nationals (from Spain)


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Who would even know for how long your mother is in the country?


That's a good point.. I was wondering that, too.. But then I also wonder what's the point of having that 90 days limit, if they cannot control it??


Anyway, when I apply for the permit, I need to mention the date of arrival, which might as well have been a bit later...(??)


Any idea whether there is any kind of penalty for overstaying?
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Old 24.11.2015, 17:39
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

Normally your mum will have to pay health insurance back to the date of arrival or the first of month of arrival (depending on insurance).
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Old 24.11.2015, 17:55
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

It's called nosy neighbours, you should know that Bucentaure.

Could be a fine possibly, but I think if you explain the medical reasons for the delay in their departure it's unlikely.

Btw if you do arrange for a permit for the mother too, then she'll need health insurance cover. If she has travel insurance that won't apply once she becomes resident here.

Not entirely sure why you went the insurance/permit route though. As a citizen of Spain I would think he has an EHIC card which entitles him to emergency treatment here.

http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/...TSE2/index.htm
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Old 24.11.2015, 17:58
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

Emergency treatment would not cover long term treatment for illness though. As soon as over emergency phase he would have been expected to return to Spain and continue treatment there.
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Old 24.11.2015, 18:11
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

True, but if he's not well enough to travel ...
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Old 24.11.2015, 18:13
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

That is why it is important to have travel insurance that will cover repatriation by special means after emergency phase- back to one's own health system- which the EHIC does not cover.

The EHIC does not cover all medical costs and it won't cover the cost of your repatriation back to your country, whereas travel insurance does.
An important part of the medical expenses section of a travel insurance policy is repatriation cover; this covers the cost or your repatriation back to the UK if your illness or injury means that you are unable to travel on your original pre-booked transport. This could be by air ambulance, or on an alternative scheduled flight, accompanied by a nurse if necessary. Repatriation is covered by travel insurance, but not by an EHIC.
Some European travellers have found themselves been stranded in Europe after sustaining severe injuries or illnesses, because they thought their EHIC would be enough to cover all their expenses.
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Old 24.11.2015, 19:33
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

Technically she should have had a permit if staying here in Switzerland over 90 days.

But the 90 days in and 90 days out rule is not valid to EU citizens. You can come and go throughout the Schengen zone as and when you please. Also no one has any clue if you have been coming or going or not. She should maybe leave Switzerland for a few days after she's been here for 90, just to be safe.
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Old 24.11.2015, 20:54
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

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Technically she should have had a permit if staying here in Switzerland over 90 days.

But the 90 days in and 90 days out rule is not valid to EU citizens. You can come and go throughout the Schengen zone as and when you please. Also no one has any clue if you have been coming or going or not. She should maybe leave Switzerland for a few days after she's been here for 90, just to be safe.
although if she went by train/car no one would even know she left and came back

I think if she isn't working it's vastly different for someone from the EU, esp given the reason she is here. Would come down to the person reading the rules and how they feel.
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Old 24.11.2015, 21:29
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

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It's called nosy neighbours, you should know that Bucentaure.
...
I beg for forgiveness, I forgot.
On the sunny side of the Alps, such a thing simply doesn't exist.


Anyhow, the Story made me remember that case:
Mother caught on overstay

But the situation is very different for the fact that the mother there is a US citizen.
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Old 24.11.2015, 21:31
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Re: Overstaying in CH more than 90 days without Residence permit

We can sit here guessing all night about who'd ever know the difference and how they'd ever know it and what the consequences might be - but I took it from the OP's post that she prefers to get back on the right side of the law and not have to worry about such things at all.

Here's a link to the official Swiss government site - it's in German/French/Italian but I'll summarize below:
https://www.ch.ch/de/aufenthalt-fur-...ige-auslander/

A non-working person (e.g. student, pensioner) with EU/EFTA member nationality can stay in Switzerland for up to 90 days in six months without any kind of permit.

If you want to stay longer than 90 days in six months, you have to register with the immigration office in the canton where you propose to stay.

They will issue you a residence permit if you can prove that you have 1) sufficient financial means to support yourself; 2) health insurance, including accident coverage; 3) if you are here as a student, a letter of admission to an accredited school. When your permit expires, it will be renewable as long as those three criteria are still met.


So the Zürich Migrationsamt should be your next port of call. Be honest*, explain, apologize, ask what you can do now to legalize your mother's situation. They will probably explain at some length what they feel you should have done >20 days ago. Agree, apologize, ask again what you can do now.


*Ethical considerations aside, your father's date of arrival is already on record since you've already applied for his permit - I doubt they are going to swallow the story that your mother only arrived some three weeks later, conveniently exactly 89 days ago.
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