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  #21  
Old 21.12.2015, 13:12
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Re: What options does an American have?

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I get your way of thinking, but if he overstays his visa that will follow him forever, what if he wants to go back to Europe again for whatever reason?

That would be my personal worry vs the working under the table thing.
Exactly. If he overstays it goes on his record and makes getting a visa legitimately later more difficult if not impossible.
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  #22  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:05
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Re: What options does an American have?

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I get your way of thinking, but if he overstays his visa that will follow him forever, what if he wants to go back to Europe again for whatever reason?

That would be my personal worry vs the working under the table thing.
As an American, the risk of a lifetime ban is almost non-existent for sticking around in Schengen for too long.

Again, the OP knows the risks.
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  #23  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:11
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Re: What options does an American have?

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As an American, the risk of a lifetime ban is almost non-existent for sticking around in Schengen for too long.

Again, the OP knows the risks.
Really? you think? It totally is possible and happens in the UK. I can't see it being so much more lax this side of the channel.

If it wasn't an issue wouldn't they extend the entry limit to more than 3 months?
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  #24  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:16
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Re: What options does an American have?

Some of the ridiculous stuff that gets posted on this forum astounds me.

You know I'd quite like to live in Australia, or maybe the US... but I don't go on OZ/US forums asking for ways to get around the system. I CAN'T live there ... unless I retrain for a job that would get me a Visa or marry an Aussie/Yank. End of Story!!

I have nothing against economic migrants or asylum seekers (I am an immigrant in Switzerland)... but people who think they are entitled to do they they want and the rules don't apply to them really PISS ME OFF!
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  #25  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:29
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Re: What options does an American have?

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Some of the ridiculous stuff that gets posted on this forum astounds me.

You know I'd quite like to live in Australia, or maybe the US... but I don't go on OZ/US forums asking for ways to get around the system. I CAN'T live there ... unless I retrain for a job that would get me a Visa or marry an Aussie/Yank. End of Story!!

I have nothing against economic migrants or asylum seekers (I am an immigrant in Switzerland)... but people who think they are entitled to do they they want and the rules don't apply to them really PISS ME OFF!
I guess having grown up in California and being surrounded by MANY people of MANY different nationalities who are contributing to the economy, pay taxes, start companies, not being welfare recipients but just don't happen to have a green card, I see things differently. Sure the ones that milk the system (the minority) piss me off but for the most part this isn't the case.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. They know the rules and choose to take the chance.
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  #26  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:31
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Re: What options does an American have?

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Really? you think? It totally is possible and happens in the UK. I can't see it being so much more lax this side of the channel.

If it wasn't an issue wouldn't they extend the entry limit to more than 3 months?
Possible: yes; likely: no

These rules weren't really written with Americans in mind.
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  #27  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:31
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Re: What options does an American have?

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Some of the ridiculous stuff that gets posted on this forum astounds me.

You know I'd quite like to live in Australia, or maybe the US... but I don't go on OZ/US forums asking for ways to get around the system. I CAN'T live there ... unless I retrain for a job that would get me a Visa or marry an Aussie/Yank. End of Story!!

I have nothing against economic migrants or asylum seekers (I am an immigrant in Switzerland)... but people who think they are entitled to do they they want and the rules don't apply to them really PISS ME OFF!
You could apply for a work permit for either country and be approved, many do this, but of course if you had a previous overstay you wouldn't be approved


I am just baffled that someone would tell the OP that Americans can get away with being an overstay so easily. I can't see how this is possible in the slightest. I mean you may get a border officer who doesn't care but what if you don't? You get an denial and deported. The rules are only getting stricter not easier over the years.

I know an American photographer recently went to the UK thinking, "Oh I can go work and just pretend to be a tourist" well 1 look at their phone and they where on the next flight back. A bride had to find a new photographer within 36 hours of her wedding.

I do not know why people think border control is so easy these days, it's not!
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  #28  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:34
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Re: What options does an American have?

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I guess having grown up in California and being surrounded by MANY people of MANY different nationalities who are contributing to the economy, pay taxes, start companies, not being welfare recipients but just don't happen to have a green card, I see things differently. Sure the ones that milk the system (the minority) piss me off but for the most part this isn't the case.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. They know the rules and choose to take the chance.
You are talking about people who have little chance of entering the USA legally, and you know what, they are often deported and live in fear of the possibility. Who wants to live like that? With an overstay, they get a ban, so even if they do then marry an American, have kids and get caught they are still deported and banned without an overstay wavier which is really hard for them to get.

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Possible: yes; likely: no

These rules weren't really written with Americans in mind.
Since when are Americans immune to the rules? If this is true I'd love someone show me where this is written.
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  #29  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:35
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Re: What options does an American have?

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I guess having grown up in California and being surrounded by MANY people of MANY different nationalities who are contributing to the economy, pay taxes, start companies, not being welfare recipients but just don't happen to have a green card, I see things differently. Sure the ones that milk the system (the minority) piss me off but for the most part this isn't the case.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. They know the rules and choose to take the chance.
You cannot work in Switzerland illegally and contribute to society. As soon as you attempt to pay tax, ahv, health insurance in Switzerland, start a company etc you would be flagged up as an illegal. Not sure how this would not be the case in the US too.
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  #30  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:40
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Re: What options does an American have?

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You are talking about people who have little chance of entering the USA legally, and you know what, they are often deported and live in fear of the possibility.
That's really not for me to say. I wouldn't like to live like that but that's not the question.



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Since when are Americans immune to the rules? If this is true I'd love someone show me where this is written.
I only stated that, for an American, simply overstaying a Schengen visa will not normally result in a lifetime ban. A few year ban would be more likely in addition to a fine.
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  #31  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:43
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Re: What options does an American have?

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You cannot work in Switzerland illegally and contribute to society. As soon as you attempt to pay tax, ahv, health insurance in Switzerland, start a company etc you would be flagged up as an illegal. Not sure how this would not be the case in the US too.
It is definitely getting more difficult but it still happens. IRS is not really known for getting upset when people pay their taxes. If there is a valid Social Security Number, all is good.

I bet this guy doesn't even have health insurance in the States so no big deal for him not to have it here.
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  #32  
Old 21.12.2015, 14:43
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Re: What options does an American have?

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You cannot work in Switzerland illegally and contribute to society. As soon as you attempt to pay tax, ahv, health insurance in Switzerland, start a company etc you would be flagged up as an illegal. Not sure how this would not be the case in the US too.
In California you can enroll in school, and have state health insurance and help without being legally present. They have done this because of the high numbers of illegals, and really as a safety net for the kids. I know others states vary on what they allow.

Some do get a tax ID number and pay tax, but they then can not do a tax return. ie they pay but do not get a refund or deductions.

Some get a fake social security number, not sure how but I have heard of it.

The aspect of not legally present alone is not supposed to be of a concern for police, schools, doctors, the main time it becomes of interest if there is a crime committed.
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  #33  
Old 21.12.2015, 15:02
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Re: What options does an American have?

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That's really not for me to say. I wouldn't like to live like that but that's not the question.

I only stated that, for an American, simply overstaying a Schengen visa will not normally result in a lifetime ban. A few year ban would be more likely in addition to a fine.
No one mentioned a lifetime ban. But a ban of 1-3 years is quite usual and can be up to 5 years. Plus with a record of your ban it'll make it difficult to gain entry the next time you try and enter Europe. You'd probably find you'd no longer be allowed to come here without having an actual visa, i.e. no more visa free travel.
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  #34  
Old 21.12.2015, 15:18
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Re: What options does an American have?

I'm from Argentina, non EU. and in certain way, american too.

I came to switzerland with a 6 month visa with the promise I will get married. (I am now, I had been with my -then- boyfriend for 7 years, so when he wanted to got back to Switzerland, we decided to get married)
I had to do all the paperwork in the Swiss embassy in Argentina. I came here before getting the visa, since I knew I could be here legally for 90 days and I got my visa before this 90 days expired. Of course, the date of the beginning of the 6 month visa was on the day I enter the EU and not when it was granted.

anyway, my husband was already here, since he didn't had a work or place to live, so we didn't want to come the two of us without a place to stay nor some sort of income. So if any of you have a job already in Switzerland or a place to stay, I would recommend you to come first and check that out.

So, that could be a posibility for your man. I believe that 6 months are enough to see if both of you like to be here. And once you get the visa, you can also ask for an extension.

On the other hand, the visa doesn't allow you to work.

Once married I got my B permit and let me tell you, even though is not so easy to find a job.

So my recomendation would be to try to get him legally. Of course you can be here ilegaly, but you will find difficulties to find a job, have a health insurance, bank account etc.
So what I don't get, is why comming here ilegally when you have options to do it legally?
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  #35  
Old 21.12.2015, 15:53
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Re: What options does an American have?

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Swiss society here is very observant and connected. The gossip network is deeply entrenched. An American non-Swiss German speaking man suddenly appearing at the local shops on a regular basis will raise a red flag, and it won't be long before word reaches the local authorities... and the immigration officials. There will be a knock on your door within 6 months to a year, and the results will not be pretty neither for you or him.
Word gets around even in a small city where the "local shops" are Migros and Coop, and even when the resident has Swiss nationality and speaks the local language.

I was convoked by the Office de la Population a few years ago when I was living temporarily, but with no fixed departure date, in my own flat. I showed up with my Swiss ID, spouse's EU passport, and proof of registration with a Swiss consular office abroad and they were satisfied since I'm retired, not working.

They never said how I had come to their attention.

I would have claimed exemption from health insurance under Art 2(2) Ordonnance sur l'assurance-maladie, and would have finessed the issue of my car (UK-registered, properly insured without time limit) but nobody cared about those.
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Old 21.12.2015, 15:55
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Re: What options does an American have?

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No one mentioned a lifetime ban.
Oh really?


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Will he ever want to fly back to the USA and back to Europe? After a visa overstay this may be impossible, like forever.
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  #37  
Old 21.12.2015, 16:09
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Re: What options does an American have?

That is not a lifetime ban, but refusal to grant the idiot another chance to offend by giving him a visa.
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  #38  
Old 21.12.2015, 16:42
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Re: What options does an American have?

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Only if you are same-sex.

Tom

Question : if there is no sex ?
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  #39  
Old 21.12.2015, 18:46
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Re: What options does an American have?

It is indeed touching to see how much people care, and I highly value everyone's opinion. I will take it all into consideration which is why I wrote on this forum.

I didn't think about that but yes, Europe is under Schengen laws so, even if traveling he would overstay so it doesn't matter. Thanks for pointing that out

Here is what I'm thinking is the best option after reading your comments: go to Switzerland 3 months, see if he likes it and if so we'll look into the concubinage permit. From what I read it's available in Vaud so I think it's the best option. If all else fails come back to the US and get married.

I realize the risk of him being illegal if he gets sick or something happens. Is it worth the risk? I don't know, it's something we need to seriously consider.

Look, to the haters - I know dancing around laws is not the example of a perfect citizen, but sometimes you have to. Sometimes, often times, the government f**ks you over. So, SOMETIMES, it's ok to fly under the radar. I'm a good person - I pay my taxes, I over-tip at restaurants, I'm an equine therapist, I volunteer at shelters and help the homeless, so get your judgemental selves outta here - I'm fine with constructive critisizm but no need to get all judgy and rude...

The math doesn't add up because I'm being rough with the numbers, does anyone really care? OK I grew up in CH, moved to US when I was 12, came back to CH when I was 15 and stayed 2 years then back to the US 2 years then back to CH 4 years and now I've been in US almost 2 years. Now you may re-do your math - I'm 24

Anyone have morenipp information on concubinage permit for VD canton?

PS: I know plenty of employers why hire illegal immigrants and take that risk because it's worth it to them (no taxes, no insurance to pay and lower salaries) - mainly in the restaurant and construction industries
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Old 21.12.2015, 18:46
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Re: What options does an American have?

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ask your consulate in America they will give you the best advice,
Awesome idea, I definitely will - thanks!!
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