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Old 20.12.2015, 21:55
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What options does an American have?

I everyone,

I am Swiss-American, currently living in the US and moving back to Switzerland sometime early 2016. I am a Swiss citizen and have obtained my diplomas in Switzerland and worked there as well so it will be easy for me to find a job.

Here is the big problem: my man is coming with me and I don't really see any other options other than to just have him come over illegally as, from what I'm seeing, it's nearly impossible to get a work permit for an American unless you are an engineer or have some type of special skill... He works in construction, builds beautiful waterscapes but can do anything construction-related since he's worked with his father, who has a General Contractor, since a young age. We're a young hardworking couple, in our mid/late-twenties, wanting to see if the Swiss life is something that will work for us (of course, I already know for me, but we need to see if he will like it).

I've done SO MUCH research, because ideally I would like for him to come over legally for peace of mind and to do things right, but I feel like there isn't any other options and it should be easy for him to find a construction or even restaurant job (he has experience in that as well) under the table.

I would love some advice and suggestions. Are there any other Americans here in the same situation? What did you do? Any ideas?
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Old 20.12.2015, 22:30
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Re: What options does an American have?

As a Swiss, if your "man" and you are married, you can legally bring him along. Finding a job for an English-only speaking person could be the bigger issue.

If you're not married, there is a so-called concubinage permit which might be possible for him to obtain (see link for details):

https://www.ag.ch/de/dvi/migration_i...=172044#172044

Would suggest searching EnglishForum for information and opinions on jobs for English-speaking immigrants.
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Old 20.12.2015, 23:09
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Re: What options does an American have?

Bringing him over illegally is a sure way to get him banned from entering Switzerland and Europe completely.

If you get married, he can come over with you. Until then, it's 3 months in then 3 months out I'm afraid.
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Old 20.12.2015, 23:29
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Re: What options does an American have?

If you're in some sort of long term arrangement, is it still required that people are married?

Maybe get a ring, but I don't think it's technically required, aren't civil partnerships a thing here?
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Old 20.12.2015, 23:36
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Re: What options does an American have?

Short of marriage or he gets a pre-approved job offer which sounds unlikely I'm afraid the concubine permit would be the only possibility, but it's not available in all cantons so it would depend on where you plan to move to.

Also, even if by some chance he could find work illegally, it's extremely risky and he could end up being banned from entering the whole Schengen Area, not just Switzerland, if found out. Plus how is he going to get things like a bank account here? As an American any bank will want to see not only his passport, but his permit.

Also as Americans you both need to realise the tax implications of living abroad these days. To open any account/s here an American needs to sign a W-9 form to allow said bank to pass the account info on to the IRS. You also need to file annual US returns and could possibly owe the US tax on top of your Swiss ones. And any "foreign", i.e. outside of US, accounts have to be reported annually on a FBAR if the aggregate amount comes to more then $10,000 at any time of the year. Start researching that here:

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inte...-Aliens-Abroad

And what is he going to do if he falls ill or has an accident? With no Swiss insurance he won't be covered and may find it difficult to see a doctor.

Frankly if you've been together for a long time and plan to marry, then it's best you do that before you move here. He would then get a one year B permit which will allow him to work without the non-EU hiring hassle. Otherwise, if the concubine permit isn't possible as Island Monkey said, it's 3 months in then 3 months out I'm afraid.

Finally, if you're thinking of this as a long term move, then being here illegally does neither of you any good. You'll both worry about him being found out and it won't give him a true picture of what life would be like for him here.

Cyrus, civil partnerships are only for same-sex couples. The Swiss don't really recognise hetrosexual relationships outside of marriage which is why the concubine permit isn't available in all cantons.
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Old 20.12.2015, 23:43
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Re: What options does an American have?

And there is no way of him not getting found out. There will be a record of him entering the Schengen zone. When he either leaves Schengen or applies for a Swiss residence permit... They will know he's over stayed & you will be screwed!
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Old 21.12.2015, 01:06
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Re: What options does an American have?

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He works in construction, builds beautiful waterscapes but can do anything construction-related since he's worked with his father, who has a General Contractor, since a young age.
There might be a workaround, but it may be more trouble than it's worth. Contractors often establish subsidiaries in other countries for specific projects, and a US contractor could easily establish one in, say, the UK. There is a principle of European Union law, incorporated into the Swiss treaties and Schengen, under which a third-country national legally employed by a EU firm can work in another EU/EEA/Swiss country for one year: Rush Portuguesa: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rush+portuguesa

As always: there is a solution for those with enough money to pay for it. And willing to deal with the administrative hassle, or pay someone to deal with it.

The next best solution is a quasi-diplomatic position with an international organization, outside of Swiss immigration rules. Think, for the moment, of United Nations security construction, based on Geneva and worldwide: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=united+nat...y+construction You never know. When the late Barbara Schell was American consul in Oran, her husband John Laylin secured a contract to harden US Government facilities there: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...es/A-p2Xe-oP7A
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Old 21.12.2015, 01:57
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Re: What options does an American have?

Thank you for all these suggestions!

We will be in the canton de Vaud and no we are not married nor do we really want to get married yet, we are too young for that although here in the US the whole process takes about 20 minutes I guess we could do it, just for permit purposes. I will definitely look more into the concubinage permit, that would be a great option!

I am Swiss, and come for a dual-citizenship family so we are used to dealing with Swiss taxes and the IRS but thanks for that insight that's another reason I think it would be better for him to be illegal, at least for a little bit, so he doesn't have to deal with all that hassle. Because that gets very complicated...

I have lived almost 20 years in Switzerland and know plenty of people (mainly Brazilians and Portugeze) that have lived in Switzerland illegally for years. Once my boyfriend enters Europe, there is no record of where exactly he is - he could be traveling all over Europe by car, train, boat etc. so how does anyone have proof he has been in CH this whole time?

It seems like maybe Vaud laws are less strict? I know people that have gotten "deported" they just went back to their home country for a few weeks on a little vacation and came right back to Switzerland. Some people just got a fine and that was it... Anyone familiar with Vaud laws?
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Old 21.12.2015, 02:07
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Re: What options does an American have?

Devil's advocate here, so he's in the country, illegally, no one is a wiser.

Will he ever want to fly back to the USA and back to Europe? After a visa overstay this may be impossible, like forever.

Say you want to get married down the road, are you sure the overstay and illegal presence isn't going to be a difference?

Someone from Portugal is EU, so although may be sans permit, the person from Portugal could be in France and only in Switzerland a few days a month, which would be allowed and one could give such an argument as there isn't a stamp at the border, but the whole time your boyfriend is over here the clock is ticking, so that line of "we can play this angle" is moot.

Maybe you both come over, 3 months, and really try it out and if you say, yes we want this, get married or sort out another permit option.
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Old 21.12.2015, 05:02
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Re: What options does an American have?

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I have lived almost 20 years in Switzerland and know plenty of people (mainly Brazilians and Portugeze) that have lived in Switzerland illegally for years.
Please reconsider your approach! I know you are young and (probably and hopefully) healthy, but there is a certain element of risk. Just for the record, I also knew someone (from South America) who managed to live in Geneva illegally for 7 years! It seemed to be working out of her, until she suddenly got sick and the situation became really ugly for her.
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Old 21.12.2015, 08:25
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Re: What options does an American have?

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I have lived almost 20 years in Switzerland and know plenty of people (mainly Brazilians and Portugeze) that have lived in Switzerland illegally for years. Once my boyfriend enters Europe, there is no record of where exactly he is - he could be traveling all over Europe by car, train, boat etc. so how does anyone have proof he has been in CH this whole time?

It seems like maybe Vaud laws are less strict? I know people that have gotten "deported" they just went back to their home country for a few weeks on a little vacation and came right back to Switzerland. Some people just got a fine and that was it... Anyone familiar with Vaud laws?
Doesn't matter that they don't know "where in Europe he has been". He is only allowed to stay in Schengen for 90 days. So if he over-stays, he will be kicked out and banned from Schengen.

Portuguese are EU/Schengen citizens, they can come and go as they please with-out checks, so it is much easier for them to work with-out a permit. Although I don't know why they would, because it is easy for them to get one.

Vaud rules don't over-ride Schengen rules.

If you want to be together enough, you will either stay in the US, or you will want to get married in order to be in Switzerland.
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Old 21.12.2015, 08:57
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Re: What options does an American have?

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aren't civil partnerships a thing here?
Only if you are same-sex.

Tom
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Old 21.12.2015, 09:14
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Re: What options does an American have?

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...moving back to Switzerland wanting to see if the Swiss life is something that will work for us (of course, I already know for me, but we need to see if he will like it).
So skirting/breaking rules if they don't fit your agenda is your idea of the "Swiss Life"?

You'll fit in perfectly.
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Old 21.12.2015, 09:17
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Re: What options does an American have?

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Thank you for all these suggestions!

We will be in the canton de Vaud and no we are not married nor do we really want to get married yet, we are too young for that although here in the US the whole process takes about 20 minutes I guess we could do it, just for permit purposes. I will definitely look more into the concubinage permit, that would be a great option!

I am Swiss, and come for a dual-citizenship family so we are used to dealing with Swiss taxes and the IRS but thanks for that insight that's another reason I think it would be better for him to be illegal, at least for a little bit, so he doesn't have to deal with all that hassle. Because that gets very complicated...

I have lived almost 20 years in Switzerland and know plenty of people (mainly Brazilians and Portugeze) that have lived in Switzerland illegally for years. Once my boyfriend enters Europe, there is no record of where exactly he is - he could be traveling all over Europe by car, train, boat etc. so how does anyone have proof he has been in CH this whole time?

It seems like maybe Vaud laws are less strict? I know people that have gotten "deported" they just went back to their home country for a few weeks on a little vacation and came right back to Switzerland. Some people just got a fine and that was it... Anyone familiar with Vaud laws?
go on and get him here illegally as you are ignoring all advice here anyway.
please do not ask for sorting out all issues in a couple of months/years time, so that we don't have to write "I told you so"-mails
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Old 21.12.2015, 09:46
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Re: What options does an American have?

I'm getting confused.
Profile: Swiss/American having lived just about half and half in the Vaud region and Florida
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We're... in our mid/late-twenties,
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I have lived almost 20 years in Switzerland
My maths skills aren't up to this.
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I am Swiss-American.. a Swiss citizen and have obtained my diplomas in Switzerland and worked there as well so it will be easy for me to find a job.
Quite apart from the legal situation concerning your man, are you sure than you will be able to find a job all that easily? I presume you have relatives in Waadt and that accomodation and finances are in order for the beginning of your stay here but the job market is not as 'lively' as it once was. Even Swiss living here already with good qualifications and lots of contacts don't find it easy.

Hope all goes well for you both and that you find a good solution to the problematic situation.
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Old 21.12.2015, 10:07
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Re: What options does an American have?

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Thank you for all these suggestions!

We will be in the canton de Vaud and no we are not married nor do we really want to get married yet, we are too young for that although here in the US the whole process takes about 20 minutes I guess we could do it, just for permit purposes. I will definitely look more into the concubinage permit, that would be a great option!

I am Swiss, and come for a dual-citizenship family so we are used to dealing with Swiss taxes and the IRS but thanks for that insight that's another reason I think it would be better for him to be illegal, at least for a little bit, so he doesn't have to deal with all that hassle. Because that gets very complicated...

I have lived almost 20 years in Switzerland and know plenty of people (mainly Brazilians and Portugeze) that have lived in Switzerland illegally for years. Once my boyfriend enters Europe, there is no record of where exactly he is - he could be traveling all over Europe by car, train, boat etc. so how does anyone have proof he has been in CH this whole time?

It seems like maybe Vaud laws are less strict? I know people that have gotten "deported" they just went back to their home country for a few weeks on a little vacation and came right back to Switzerland. Some people just got a fine and that was it... Anyone familiar with Vaud laws?
If you're going to be in Vaud then the concubine permit is your best option, short of marriage. You'll need to agree to financially support him for 5 years and I'm not sure if he would be able to work with that permit, but you can check with the cantonal migration office.

Here's Vaud's info page on the permit:

http://www.vd.ch/themes/vie-privee/p...s-du-concubin/

Again, I say seriously reconsider the illegal side. Even if by some wild chance an employer is willing to employ your boyfriend illegally, he will have no access to a bank account here. All banks will require him to provide both passport and permit, especially as he's an American. Without both he will not be able to open an account here, period. If the employer won't pay him in cash, he's stuck plus he'll have no access to credit/debit cards. Then there's the whole overstay issue. If he ends up being caught and banned it means you won't see him for some years unless you're prepared to travel back to the US or both of you go to the UK to see each other.

http://www.euro-dollar-currency.com/...engen_visa.htm

Understand that it's not just Switzerland it's the whole of the Schengen Area so travelling around Europe isn't going to help. He'll still be overstaying his welcome here. And given that some countries have closed their borders due to the current migrant crisis, it's more likely that he would face passport/ID checks. If he gets banned in one country it applies to the whole area, not just the country he was banned in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

Do you really think with his American accent that any employer in his right mind is going to employ him without seeing his Swiss permit first? Sorry, but you're living in cloud cuckoo land. Brazilians may be able to get away with impersonating Portuguese, but it won't work for him.

Another option possibly would be for him to study a Masters degree here. Most are taught in English so the language isn't an issue and that might give him a chance to get a residence permit further down the line.
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Old 21.12.2015, 10:50
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Re: What options does an American have?

Swiss society here is very observant and connected. The gossip network is deeply entrenched. An American non-Swiss German speaking man suddenly appearing at the local shops on a regular basis will raise a red flag, and it won't be long before word reaches the local authorities... and the immigration officials. There will be a knock on your door within 6 months to a year, and the results will not be pretty neither for you or him.
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Old 21.12.2015, 11:04
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Re: What options does an American have?

There are penalties employers face if they hire non-EU nationals.

https://www.ge.ch/moe/uk/travail_non_autorise.asp

These could well apply to you as well for aiding and abetting an illegal. Do you really want to risk a fine/jail time? Better to live with the 3 months in/3 months out rule if you have to.
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Old 21.12.2015, 11:38
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Re: What options does an American have?

It's really touching that all of these people above are so concerned for you and your boyfriend's well being.

I'm sure you already know the risks of what you are trying. It's up to you to decide whether it's worth the effort. There seem to be several individuals offering up under-the-table services here on the English Forum. Your boyfriend could do the same and quite likely not get found out. Once he decides if this is a place that could work for him, then you could take the next step to figure out how to do it legally.

What's the worst that could happen? He'll get shipped home. Not the end of the world and the States are a little bit better than Eritrea so the gamble in the big picture is not so high.
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Old 21.12.2015, 12:51
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Re: What options does an American have?

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It's really touching that all of these people above are so concerned for you and your boyfriend's well being.

I'm sure you already know the risks of what you are trying. It's up to you to decide whether it's worth the effort. There seem to be several individuals offering up under-the-table services here on the English Forum. Your boyfriend could do the same and quite likely not get found out. Once he decides if this is a place that could work for him, then you could take the next step to figure out how to do it legally.

What's the worst that could happen? He'll get shipped home. Not the end of the world and the States are a little bit better than Eritrea so the gamble in the big picture is not so high.

I get your way of thinking, but if he overstays his visa that will follow him forever, what if he wants to go back to Europe again for whatever reason?

That would be my personal worry vs the working under the table thing.
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