Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27.06.2016, 20:58
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Post Brexit Dilemma

Im hoping that someone on here will be able to shed a little light on this situation..

So my husband is a British B permit holder who has been in Switzerland for 8 years. He is self employed and has a GmBH. We also own a property here. So here is the dilemma that we face post brexit.. My husband, due to the nature of his business is paid in pounds.. He has steadily watched his salary decrease over the years and now with brexit, and the chance that the pound could plummet even lower, there is a chance we may have to leave CH. As it will become too expensive to live here for him.

I am a non-eu citizen currently on a Spousal B permit with the right to work. Ive worked for about 6 years since I arrived. I currently work at one of the banks and am in a good position with a decent salary which I would be really hesitant to give up.. So here is the question..

If my husband moved back to the Uk, and got rid of his company here. Is there chance that I could stay and continue my job? Not for an indefinite period, but for at least a year or so. I would commute to the UK on weekends. I know that I would then need a non-permit and these are hard to come by.

Given that i have worked continuously for 6 years, have a decent job, pay taxes and speak German. Do you think that they would allow this? Or would this not even be an option. Im hoping someone can shed a bit of light as to whether this feasible. Would you advise perhaps speaking to a lawyer to find out options? Would be grateful for any inputs...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:00
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 6,524
Groaned at 43 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 9,173 Times in 4,358 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Why not apply for C permits so you can stay here even if he leaves?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:10
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

He's not eligible for one as he doesn't speak German..When our permits were last up for renewal, they has just introduced the language requirement in Zug and as he wasn't able to provide a language certificate, they refused a B. I speak fluent German, but as im here as a dependant that doesnt count unfortunately...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:12
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,546
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,667 Times in 5,519 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Can you stay and continue your job? No. Your permit is tied to his and if he leaves then you either have to leave too or your employer has to apply for a new permit for you under the non-EU hiring rules.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

Him/you applying for C permits would be a possible answer. Another is to change his currency of payment from pounds to francs. I assume he's paying most/all of his taxes here so I'm surprised he even bothered to keep being paid in pounds. The exchange rate over the years surely hit hard.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:15
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
Can you stay and continue your job? No. Your permit is tied to his and if he leaves then you either have to leave too or your employer has to apply for a new permit for you under the non-EU hiring rules.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html

Him/you applying for C permits would be a possible answer. Another is to change his currency of payment from pounds to francs. I assume he's paying most/all of his taxes here so I'm surprised he even bothered to keep being paid in pounds. The exchange rate over the years surely hit hard.
I would need to ask them to apply on my behalf for a non eu permit. I know that they would be willing, but of course the decision lies with the kanton. We have looked at getting paid in francs, but the salary would remain the same as in pounds so he wouldn't be much better off.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:15
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 8,853
Groaned at 86 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 7,400 Times in 3,733 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

I know this is not in the scope of what you asked ... But can be not charge his clients in CHF and/or find non UK clients ?

Isn't that the best way to grow his business? But anyway, if you have a good salary that can pay for you both you have some time for him to transition his business, no?

I agree with the c permit thing though. Time for hubby to start German lessons.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:16
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Would the fact that I've worked here for 6 years not count towards anything, or would be treated as anyone else coming here seeking a non-eu work permit?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:18
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,057
Groaned at 88 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 3,089 Times in 1,583 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
Would the fact that I've worked here for 6 years not count towards anything, or would be treated as anyone else coming here seeking a non-eu work permit?
You are changing permits so most likely, no. You were on a dependent permit and the new one would be yours so Id imagine the procedure is the same as for a new non-EU permit.
But Id definitely ask your employer to mention that you are here already!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:21
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 8,853
Groaned at 86 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 7,400 Times in 3,733 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
Would the fact that I've worked here for 6 years not count towards anything, or would be treated as anyone else coming here seeking a non-eu work permit?
If you got divorced, yes. Not recommending that! It would be better for the husband to learn German and get C permits!

Technically though he could leave and stay registered here with him coming hre for the weekends as opposed to you going there on the weekends.

I have to be honest ... Again not the scope of your question... But if he moved back and you stay here you will be paying for two households. How does that help the situation you guys are in?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:24
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
If you got divorced, yes. Not recommending that! It would be better for the husband to learn German and get C permits!

Technically though he could leave and stay registered here with him coming hre for the weekends as opposed to you going there on the weekends.

I have to be honest ... Again not the scope of your question... But if he moved back and you stay here you will be paying for two households. How does that help the situation you guys are in?
Thanks for that. I didn't know its still possible for him stay registered here? But im guessing of course he would still need to pay taxes, etc?

We would sell our home here and have a home in the Uk already. I would then just rent a cheaper smaller apartment for myself.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:25
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,546
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,667 Times in 5,519 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

No, it counts for nothing. The permit application would be treated as a new one so the employer still has to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job.

You've surely lost a fair amount of money with exchange transactions so I think you should look at hard that and ask yourself whether staying with the pound is really the best. I know when I do a monthly transfer from Switzerland to the UK it costs me around 8 each time. Multiple that up by the presumably many payments your husband is receiving and you're losing a lot. And that's not taking into account losses with the actual exchange rates.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:29
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,546
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,667 Times in 5,519 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for that. I didn't know its still possible for him stay registered here? But im guessing of course he would still need to pay taxes, etc?

We would sell our home here and have a home in the Uk already. I would then just rent a cheaper smaller apartment for myself.
This is likely to end you up with more taxes as he would be resident in both places and so owe tax in both. Plus to keep his permit here, his centre of life is supposed to be in Switzerland. Just coming back at weekends doesn't cut it really. And if he does that he'll also have to keep up payments for his Swiss health insurance - it's mandatory for residents.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:34
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Thanks for the advice. It looks like we likely just have to pack up and leave.. its not an option to change his salary as he has chosen to make Switzerland his base. Even if he got paid in swiss francs, it would be the pound equivalent so the dilemma is still there. Of course, it wouldnt make sense for him to still remain registered here..

And with the fact that I will have to apply for a non-eu permit, it just doesnt look promising.. Would be quite devastated to leave as I like it here, but such is life..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:34
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,986
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,232 Times in 2,913 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
If you got divorced, yes. Not recommending that! It would be better for the husband to learn German and get C permits!

Technically though he could leave and stay registered here with him coming hre for the weekends as opposed to you going there on the weekends.

I have to be honest ... Again not the scope of your question... But if he moved back and you stay here you will be paying for two households. How does that help the situation you guys are in?

Learning German would be a LOT cheaper and easier than two households.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:41
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 8,853
Groaned at 86 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 7,400 Times in 3,733 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
This is likely to end you up with more taxes as he would be resident in both places and so owe tax in both.
They are going to have to pay taxes in both places anyway.

Quote:
Plus to keep his permit here, his centre of life is supposed to be in Switzerland. Just coming back at weekends doesn't cut it really.
Of course it can. If it works the other way around UK-> CH, it can work the other way too, CH -> Uk. His wife is here due to her work.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:48
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,462
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,226 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

My gut feeling is that we've not yet seen the bottom of the barrel with regard to the UKP-CHF exchange rate. So, prepare for the worst.
The forum's ForEx traders may know more about it. Or at least believe to know more and be more convincing than I am ;-)

I would try to stay here, of course.

I especially wouldn't have bought a home in the UK right now.
You may lose more on that than the couple of UKP of transaction costs every month...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:58
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
My gut feeling is that we've not yet seen the bottom of the barrel with regard to the UKP-CHF exchange rate. So, prepare for the worst.
The forum's ForEx traders may know more about it. Or at least believe to know more and be more convincing than I am ;-)

I would try to stay here, of course.

I especially wouldn't have bought a home in the UK right now.
You may lose more on that than the couple of UKP of transaction costs every month...
Thanks for the advice. we thankfully bought the home a while back so no major losses to be incurred there.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27.06.2016, 21:59
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Does my husband have to have a GmBH to remain self-employed here? Its the company costs that are killing him. is there a way to be self employed and just pay taxes not company costs?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27.06.2016, 22:13
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,546
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,667 Times in 5,519 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

No, if he's a one man business he doesn't need a GmbH to remain self-employed. But going that route means he will have to take on some of the risks himself.

https://www.startups.ch/en/inform/details/forms/

It's not the house in the UK that would be the problem, but possibly the one here. When did you buy it? Tax on the profit of any sale is horrendously high here if you sell within a few years of buying.

https://www.ch.ch/en/property-gains-tax/

You could be looking in the region of 60%-70% tax if you're selling within 5 or so years of buying.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 27.06.2016, 22:17
Nadia77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 193
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 63 Posts
Nadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of manyNadia77 has earned the respect of many
Re: Post Brexit Dilemma

Quote:
View Post
No, if he's a one man business he doesn't need a GmbH to remain self-employed. But going that route means he will have to take on some of the risks himself.

https://www.startups.ch/en/inform/details/forms/

It's not the house in the UK that would be the problem, but possibly the one here. When did you buy it? Tax on the profit of any sale is horrendously high here if you sell within a few years of buying.

https://www.ch.ch/en/property-gains-tax/

You could be looking in the region of 60%-70% tax if you're selling within 5 or so years of buying.
Thanks for that. I think it would be a good option to explore getting rid of the GmBH and assessing what risks are involved there.

He bought the apartment 8 years or so. Would the tax still be high on that?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brexit, non eu b permit




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Switzerland and Brexit Phil_MCR Swiss politics/news 74 12.07.2016 19:24
Brexit - did your vote change Phil_MCR International affairs/politics 282 24.06.2016 10:08
Brexit -- attitude to investments? Pachyderm Finance/banking/taxation 29 19.06.2016 14:45
Brexit voting Jamol Permits/visas/government 8 09.06.2016 12:44


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0