Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28.06.2016, 23:22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bern
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
unbalanced has no particular reputation at present
Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Hi all,

before i asked a question at the following link

What is the process of after graduation of a Swiss University

I am waiting for my thesis defence and I hope i will graduate soon.

Well, I have currently B type visa and it will expires end of the july and I have to extend my visa 2 weeks before expire date. But I am not sure if i can get graduate until that time..

My questions;

1- If I cant graduate, how long I should to extend my visa ? a few months ?

2- If I did, I know that we have 6 months job seeking visa that is L. But when I graduate and ASAP I want to apply work permit. Because my company wants to continue with me (currently I do internship). They called BECO and they said, they have to prove that the candidate (its me ) has suitable for this job, they have post a job advertisement on internet,newspapers, etc.. And if they cant find anyone, then they can hire me..

But according to this https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...abgaenger.html

it seems a bit weird.. I though that the company where I will work, not need to prove something.. but now BECO told them like that.. we should ask again? Or is it right?


PS: I am from a non-EU country and study master in computer science



This topic is so important for me, and even small information is so precious. Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28.06.2016, 23:47
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 2,322
Groaned at 59 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 3,440 Times in 1,350 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Quote:
View Post

1- If I cant graduate, how long I should to extend my visa ? a few months ?
That is not up to you, but to the authorities. You need a letter from your university confirming your continued enrolment and your permit will be extended accordingly.

Quote:
View Post
2- If I did, I know that we have 6 months job seeking visa that is L. But when I graduate and ASAP I want to apply work permit. Because my company wants to continue with me (currently I do internship). They called BECO and they said, they have to prove that the candidate (its me ) has suitable for this job, they have post a job advertisement on internet,newspapers, etc.. And if they cant find anyone, then they can hire me..

But according to this https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...abgaenger.html

it seems a bit weird.. I though that the company where I will work, not need to prove something.. but now BECO told them like that.. we should ask again? Or is it right?
BECO is correct. You have easier access for 6 months after graduation, mainly because without having studied here, you would stand no chance to get a work permit here right after graduation. But the degree from a Swiss uni is by no means a guarantee for a work permit. The usual process for non-EU hirings still has to be followed (that process is what the company explained to you). The only bit I'm not sure about is how critical/necessary the job advertisement is. Essentially, whatever job you're being considered for, it still needs to be "of significant scientific and/or economic interest" and if you're facing 50 Swiss and EU competitors, your chances of getting the permit are still rather slim.

I never quite understood the advantage of this regulation as it implies that a non-EU citizen with a degree from a Swiss uni has immediate access to the labor market and that is not correct.

At any rate, consider a plan B, just in case. I wouldn't rely too much on that job as things may not work out.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28.06.2016, 23:58
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bern
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
unbalanced has no particular reputation at present
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Thank you for your reply. So as I understand, there is no much difference with a person who does not have a swiss diploma.. Because I will follow the same steps..?

I am a software developer and work there about 2 years. I think my skills are quite good, i mean, it is not so possible to find someone like me. Because the company is not exactly a software developing company.

Anyway, so what can you advice for me? I think I can get a letter from my supervisors regarding continuity of my thesis... But the most important thing is about work permit. I am really open for any advice.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29.06.2016, 00:09
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 2,322
Groaned at 59 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 3,440 Times in 1,350 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Generally, non-EU citizens need to be highly specialized or seasoned managers (whatever that means exactly) to be considered for a work permit. Of course recent graduates are neither. Hence in general, anyone with let's say < 10 years of work experience and who is not highly specialized in some field stands no chance whatsoever to get a work permit here. Reason being that for every non-EU hire, companies need to prove there are no Swiss or EU citizens who could do the job. That is near impossible for most jobs. Thank the EU for that, it wasn't Switzerland's idea (before Free Movement of People within EU, all non-Swiss were treated equally in the Swiss labor market)

You have it easier with a Swiss degree (also only in the first 6 months after graduation) because you can at least be considered, whereas without a Swiss degree, you wouldn't be. But you still need to fit the job description quite perfectly and there need to be very few to no Swiss/EU candidates, otherwise chances are they are still being forced to go with the Swiss/EU one.

As said, make a plan B.

As for the current permit, no, that should not be "less important". If your permit expires but you have not graduated and no new work permit based on your job, you can't stay here. You don't need to take care of the work permit, you can't do anything about that anyway - that is up to your company and they need to deal with it. What you need to focus on is the extension of your current permit and as said, for that you need approval by the university of continued enrolment until your thesis is finished and approved and you're graduating, with diploma and all. That extension is easy to get, but it needs to be taken care of and preferably not on the day your current permit expires, but well before that. Especially since you already seem to know you won't be graduating as planned (for some reason).

Also note that no matter what, you will need to provide a diploma (or at the very least a confirmation of your graduation) to even be considered for that job. That (supposedly) easier access to jobs is based on your graduation - hence no diploma, no access. It's in your every interest to graduate as soon as you can and on a valid permit of course.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29.06.2016, 00:28
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bern
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
unbalanced has no particular reputation at present
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

thank your for your detail explanation. that really helps me. I will not wait anymore, I will start to extend my visa now and after i will run for work permit if swiss does not accept me, I will move germany, i think its easier
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29.06.2016, 00:34
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 2,322
Groaned at 59 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 3,440 Times in 1,350 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Quote:
View Post
thank your for your detail explanation. that really helps me. I will not wait anymore, I will start to extend my visa now and after i will run for work permit if swiss does not accept me, I will move germany, i think its easier
You may be at a bit of an advantage here as you did your internship at that company, but yes, it's good to not rely on it. However, why would you think it's easier in Germany? I would expect the regulations to be similar to Switzerland (though I indeed don't know in detail)... Recommend you do some research or ask around in a Germany-focused forum similar to this.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29.06.2016, 00:59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bern
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
unbalanced has no particular reputation at present
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

my friends went there from another countries easily.. maybe theoretically there is the same rule but in practice its different. For example, one of my friend were a new graduated machine engineer from Turkey and he applied job and they accepted him and he went.. they did not search a person in germany and in EU..

after i had a classmate from china but he studied with me and after he applied job in germany and they accepted him so he worked there and now a university offered him phd position in berlin and he accepted and moved.. he said, if you work here 21 months, you will get a permanent residence permit..

this is what i heard...


but i want to stay in switzerland, i have also a girlfriend, i dont want to break up..

as you said i have advantage because i have experience with the company tool. i created a mobil app for them and my native language is important for them also. Because one branch of company is in my country and there are customers and we always solve their problem by calling then I dont think so there are many people like me in Switzerland and in EU.

One more question; I am planning to go a german intensive course for B1 level.. well, when the company ask for quota from BECO, i should provide a letter that I go course? Maybe it is not good. I mean, they can probably say that why you hire the person who does not speak proper german .. maybe better to not mention about it?

thanx
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29.06.2016, 01:05
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

For some reason, this piece of information is commonly disregarded.

For non-EU graduates of Swiss universities the EU priority does not apply.
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...abgaenger.html

"Parliament passed the Neirynck initiative on June 18, 2010, a parliamentary initiative aimed at amending article 21 of the Foreign Nationals Act. The amendment provides for foreign nationals graduating from a Swiss university-level institution to be on an equal footing with Swiss nationals when it comes to entering the Swiss labor market.
To find employment, foreign nationals who have earned a Swiss university-level diploma will be entitled to stay in Switzerland for six more months from the time of completing their education or postgraduate studies. Those who are successful in securing employment will be issued a work permit, provided the prospective position involves an activity of particular scientific or economic importance."

Your company should have told the BECO that you will have a Swiss diploma. They do need to explain the scientific or economic importance of the job, which should be possible if it is in your field, computer science.

And yes, Germany is easier. The government does not make the companies jump through as many hoops to employ non-EUs, if they have university qualifications, and no salary dumping is happening.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29.06.2016, 01:38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bern
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
unbalanced has no particular reputation at present
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

@Kosti, thank you for your reply. I also understand like that but BECO said different. My colleague called there and told them I have a B permit and they said yes but its not a regular B permit, he has it because he is a student, so this permit is given because of study..

that means they know that i study here and i will have swiss diploma. even though, they said that our company has to prove if i am suitable, search employee in switzerland/eu ...etc.. I dont know actually whats going on..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29.06.2016, 08:18
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,486
Groaned at 169 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 9,622 Times in 5,497 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

It could be that, because you haven't yet graduated, they're trying to apply the non-EU hiring rules. In that case, graduate first, apply for your job seeker L permit and then have your company apply for a new permit for you. That would definitely fall under the graduate rules.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 29.06.2016, 10:54
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 2,322
Groaned at 59 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 3,440 Times in 1,350 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Yes and that is exactly why I brought it up. I worked in this for a few years (after that regulation was put into place) and can assure you that it is not as easy as it's made out to be. It is implied everywhere that non-EUs with a Swiss degree have instant access to the labor market the way Swiss and EUs do and that is not quite correct. We had to go through the non-EU hiring process every time, though we didn't always have to provide a list of EU/Swiss candidates, as I said already.

Is it easier than it used to be and easier than for non-EUs without a degree from a Swiss uni, absolutely (as also already said), but it is not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. It may indeed work out, but I would in no way fully rely on it. Granted, that is always true if you try to get a permit to work in another country. Easier access does not equal guaranteed access. It also still partly depends on the type of job, see above.

You can also read more in this article: http://campus.nzz.ch/zukunft/die-konkurrenz-von-dritten German only sorry.

Quote:
«Allein der Studienabschluss in der Schweiz ist nach wie vor kein Garant für eine Arbeitsstelle», sagt Emmenegger. Zudem müssen die Bewerber spezialisiert und unentbehrlich für die jeweilige Stelle sein. Einen Dozenten für Physik beispielsweise findet man auch in den Reihen der inländischen Absolventen.
(...)
Stellt man den ausländischen Absolventen ein, benötigt dieser eine Arbeits- und Aufenthaltsbewilligung. Diesen Schritt zu wagen, überlege sich ein Arbeitgeber zweimal, da er einen zeitlichen und finanziellen Mehraufwand erfordere. Bis zu acht Wochen würde die Bearbeitung des Antrages dauern, und allein die Verfahrensgebühren belaufen sich auf rund 600 Franken.
And most important above all: a diploma is needed at any rate. No diploma, no chance.

OP your current permit is indeed of no value as it's a permit to study, not work.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 29.06.2016, 12:14
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 2,322
Groaned at 59 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 3,440 Times in 1,350 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Quote:
View Post
that means they know that i study here and i will have swiss diploma. even though, they said that our company has to prove if i am suitable, search employee in switzerland/eu ...etc.. I dont know actually whats going on..
Studying doesn't imply graduating Plenty of people who never graduate. Therefore the current B permit is useless and without a diploma or, as said, confirmation of graduation, you can't be considered. And yes, this is bureaucracy, they will want to see proof.

Quote:
One more question; I am planning to go a german intensive course for B1 level.. well, when the company ask for quota from BECO, i should provide a letter that I go course? Maybe it is not good. I mean, they can probably say that why you hire the person who does not speak proper german .. maybe better to not mention about it?
Showing a willingness to integrate is never a bad thing, so why would you think it's not good to sign up for German classes? They will of course know you don't speak German no matter what, but at least you're showing some initiative to change that. Which is never bad and might well work in your favor.

In general, chances are the company knows best what to do, or at least better than you, and even if they don't know for sure, they will still follow the process they think is correct. I've seen it go both ways, and some companies go with the "best case approach" (also known as empty promises), sometimes leading to disappointment and frustration on every level. I always preferred to go with the "worst case" approach when it comes to work permit applications as I've seen it go wrong many, many times. Do you have a chance to get a work permit? Yes. Do you have a guarantee? No.

As said though, take care of the study permit extension and finish that thesis of yours asap. It will help you for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 29.06.2016, 19:10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bern
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
unbalanced has no particular reputation at present
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

thank you for your replies..

Today I sent an email to my supervisor and she said me, they have not read my draft yet but if everything is fine, it will finish before 15th July. So i will wait for their answer and if it will not finish i will ask for a letter for extending my visa. Otherwise I will directly apply to work permit.

I am not sure if its still good to extend my study permit?

@ Samaire13, thank you for your interest, you helped me a lot.. I will try my chance and let me see what will happen I know its difficult but i hope i will have a good end
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 29.06.2016, 19:41
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 51
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
drewboog has no particular reputation at present
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

Quote:
View Post

PS: I am from a non-EU country and study master in computer science

This topic is so important for me, and even small information is so precious. Thank you
Someone at my company got a non-EU L permit to work having just their masters with no experience. I think they went to a university in Serbia. They recently received their non-EU B permit after two years of work experience at the company. They are a software engineer in a specialized field. So it may be possible to get the working permission without experience.

I'll warn you that the AWA (Amt fur Wirtschaft und Arbeit) office in Zurich that decides the work permission might not follow what is in the Foreign Nationals Act law, they interpret the laws how they want to. If you or your HR calls before they submit the letter to the migration office the AWA office will always tell you that it will be no problem. Then it becomes a problem later after they reject it and you were expecting otherwise.

I would give it a shot, but don't commit too much to it before you have that letter of work permission approval in hand no matter what you get told ahead of time.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 29.06.2016, 23:24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bern
Posts: 60
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
unbalanced has no particular reputation at present
Re: Visa Situation for a person who has a Swiss Uni Diploma

hopefully i don't live in zurich

i think that i have enough experience for my field.. I've worked current place almost for 2 years and before that in my country i worked and i also work as a freelancer for long time..

thank you for your opinion.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For the Swiss who has everything...... evianers Daily life 1 22.06.2016 20:41
Searching for 1 Year/6 months or 60 credit hours Uni Diploma amiramin Education 2 06.08.2013 14:29
Person who bought my car has landed me with a speeding fine. Leafy Transportation/driving 9 02.11.2011 09:28
Swiss Visa for Self employed person mikee Permits/visas/government 8 23.11.2010 15:23
Swiss Student Visa for Thai Person never Permits/visas/government 1 12.09.2007 20:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0