Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04.07.2016, 15:40
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,272
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,477 Times in 6,019 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Travelling within Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Ok, since I spent hours talking to "experts" and did not get a clear answer: My in-laws will visit this autumn and we will take them on a cruise through the western mediterranean. They are non-EU, so they will get a Swiss Schengen visa (cause we will be most of the time here...). The cruise will not leave Europe (Only includes France, Spain and Italy).

My question: if you get on a ship and go from one Schengen country to another... do I need a multi entry visa or not? Technically are you most likely crossing (very little) international waters, but you do not go to any ports to possibly leave the boat. The reason why i ask: a multi entry visa is MUCH more expensive... about 500 CHF per person! If I don't need to would I rather save the 800 or so additional costs...


Information online by all cruise lines I checked was the "I save my ass type" along the line of "why don't you ask every single embassy separately?" or "if your ship leaves Europe, for example to Africa or Turkey, you'll need a multi entry visa to come back"... no, really?


So I called the operator and the call center agent had never heard of the concept of a Schengen visa before... "Can you use your visa for all countries? Should be fine then, no? Better call the embassy though...".


So I called the embassies. The Spanish consulate won't answer before Midweek as the one person who might know is ill. The Italian one only picks up the phone for three hours a day... and only has their website in Italian or French... which is not helpful.


Any idea or experience?
__________________
There is a special place in Hull reserved for the guy who invented autocorrect.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04.07.2016, 15:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,653
Groaned at 152 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,576 Times in 3,220 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

You need multi entry if you leave the Schengen zone and then return. If you stay within the Schengen zone, single entry is sufficient.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 04.07.2016, 15:58
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,272
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,477 Times in 6,019 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
You need multi entry if you leave the Schengen zone and then return. If you stay within the Schengen zone, single entry is sufficient.
That's what I thought, so I am surprised that everyone is making so fuzzy answers... is the water between Schengen countries, say from Marseille to Barcelona, still "within" or am I leaving by crossing it? I'd argue that a flight from Zurich to Athens over the Balkans also crosses non-Schengen territory, but since I am unlikely to jump off a plane is it ok... should be the same for ships?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:16
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,527
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,659 Times in 5,513 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Found this:

"Can I travel to more than one Schengen country with the same Schengen visa?

Yes, once you are issued the visa you can travel within the Schengen area as long as you don’t exceed the timeframe granted your visa."

http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/freq...schengen-visa/

But I also found this:

https://www.go-today.com/images/pack...-specifics.pdf

Then I found another cruise company saying only the single entry is needed.

Really doesn't seem to be a consensus on this, so to be on the safe side I'd go for the multiple despite the expense. If you can't get a solid, definite anwer from embassies/consulates/cruise companies then then risk isn't worth it. You don't want them to be thrown off the cruise because the visa is wrong. Or not even be allowed to begin the cruise because of it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:22
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,827
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,469 Times in 6,677 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Take from the low water baseline:

First 12 miles = territorial
Second 12 miles = contiguous
From there to 200 miles = exclusive economic zone

Nothing in the Mediterranean sits in international waters.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:30
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,984
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,231 Times in 2,913 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Treverus,

I've had a quick whip round a few sailing forums, the consensus there seems to be that as long as all of the ports of call are Schengen states, then a single entry visa is ok, but if any port of call is outside Schengen, then you need a multiple entry visa.

I'm a bit surprised that the tour operator can't answer this question.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:30
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,272
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,477 Times in 6,019 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Well, the cruise company already confirmed that we would not be stopped from boarding the boat at the beginning, she just could not confirm if we could leave the boat in the other countries... which is kind of the point of a cruise.


I'll call the embassies, will probably get some vague answer and then see.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:35
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 3,381
Groaned at 62 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,966 Times in 1,470 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

I can't see it's any different from flying. Fly within Schengen zone, single entry. Sail from Schengen country to schengen country... Surely the same!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:41
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,984
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,231 Times in 2,913 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
Well, the cruise company already confirmed that we would not be stopped from boarding the boat at the beginning, she just could not confirm if we could leave the boat in the other countries... which is kind of the point of a cruise.


I'll call the embassies, will probably get some vague answer and then see.

Are the ships they operate inflatable? Is this their inaugural cruise. (If the answer to either is "yes" then I'd be taking my money elsewhere.)

Do you have a list of the ports of call?

I would have tried "May I speak with your manager?" before I started calling a list of embassies.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:51
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,272
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,477 Times in 6,019 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
Are the ships they operate inflatable? Is this their inaugural cruise. (If the answer to either is "yes" then I'd be taking my money elsewhere.)

Do you have a list of the ports of call?

I would have tried "May I speak with your manager?" before I started calling a list of embassies.


Well, why not name and shame them: NCL. One of the biggest and not the cheapest around. We will visit Barcelona, Naples, Civitavecchia, Livorno, Cannes, Marseille. So I am 100% sure they are all EU.

Firs try: By email. Got a vague answer along the line of "we really recommend the multi entry visa, but are in no way responsible, why don't you check with the embassy?"


Then I tried calling. The lady did not even know the concept of a Schengen visa. I guess their German speaking help desk deals with 99.99% Germans, Austrians and Swiss, so really have no clue. She let me wait twice with "ill ask my manager" till she got a basic understanding of my question. At which point she said "it's probably ok, but we cannot guarantee it... please ask the embassy"...


Honestly: I had some similar situation before which ruined my vacation, so this time I will follow through and ask the embassies as some call center drone is not a reliable source unless they give it to me in writing. And the written parts on all websites I checked were evasive and vague for some reason.


P.S: I did however learn something today: I was wondering why so many cruises make one single stop to places in north africa or Turkey, which seemed to add very little to the itinary and are a waste of time: turns out that cruise companies can as soon as ONE stop is outside the EU operate tax free on board for the entire trip... I guess I will be paying VAT, but if this saves me 800 bucks on visa fees can I drink quite some girly drinks with little umbrellas in them for that...
__________________
There is a special place in Hull reserved for the guy who invented autocorrect.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 04.07.2016, 16:57
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,527
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,659 Times in 5,513 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
Treverus,

I've had a quick whip round a few sailing forums, the consensus there seems to be that as long as all of the ports of call are Schengen states, then a single entry visa is ok, but if any port of call is outside Schengen, then you need a multiple entry visa.

I'm a bit surprised that the tour operator can't answer this question.
Seemed strange to me too JagWaugh, but if you look at some of their websites, the onus is on the passenger to sort out what documentation they need. So I guess that's their get out for not knowing.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04.07.2016, 17:24
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,984
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,231 Times in 2,913 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Well, they do make a concrete statement on the website
https://www.ncl.com/about/required-t...tion#/Schengen

"There are four types of Schengen visas, but type C is the one typically needed by passengers, which can be issued by any one of the Schengen states and is valid for all the others. Due to the type of itineraries in Europe, Scandinavia, and the Mediterranean, passengers who require Schengen visas must obtain a multiple-entry type visa prior to traveling. U.S. and Canadian citizens do not require a Schengen visa"


Sorry Treverus
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04.07.2016, 17:33
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,527
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,659 Times in 5,513 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Well, there you go! Another vote for the multiple. That makes it 2 all doesn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04.07.2016, 17:33
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,272
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,477 Times in 6,019 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
Well, they do make a concrete statement on the website
https://www.ncl.com/about/required-t...tion#/Schengen

"There are four types of Schengen visas, but type C is the one typically needed by passengers, which can be issued by any one of the Schengen states and is valid for all the others. Due to the type of itineraries in Europe, Scandinavia, and the Mediterranean, passengers who require Schengen visas must obtain a multiple-entry type visa prior to traveling. U.S. and Canadian citizens do not require a Schengen visa"


Sorry Treverus

Yeah, I read that page... that was the reason I asked them in the first place. I know by now that this statement makes sense because nearly all their routes include one stop outside Schengen in order to operate VAT free. The "due to the type of itinary" bit is the key...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04.07.2016, 17:36
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,482
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,336 Times in 5,681 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Isn't there always a risk of diversion anyway on cruises?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04.07.2016, 17:41
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 3,984
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 7,231 Times in 2,913 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, I read that page... that was the reason I asked them in the first place. I know by now that this statement makes sense because nearly all their routes include one stop outside Schengen in order to operate VAT free. The "due to the type of itinary" bit is the key...
Yep, VAT.

Looks like you may not be able to have your duty free drinks without paying for them too.

Not sure of you or your families drinking habits, but 800$ is a LOT of umbrellas.

It would also disclaim the discrepancy between the NCL and the sailing forums.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04.07.2016, 18:27
Oldhand's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,832
Groaned at 20 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 6,093 Times in 1,907 Posts
Oldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Hi Treverus, I thought all NCL cruises for Europe booked in Europe were all inclusive now. Obviously you or the travellers may have booked outside then it doesn't count.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04.07.2016, 18:28
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,482
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,336 Times in 5,681 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
The reason why i ask: a multi entry visa is MUCH more expensive... about 500 CHF per person! If I don't need to would I rather save the 800 or so additional costs...
I was more wondering how you have 1.6 people.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04.07.2016, 18:50
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,272
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,477 Times in 6,019 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

Quote:
View Post
Hi Treverus, I thought all NCL cruises for Europe booked in Europe were all inclusive now. Obviously you or the travellers may have booked outside then it doesn't count.
Erm, yeah. They are all inclusive... which does as far as I understand of course not mean ALL inclusive ;-)


- Want to eat in one of the speciality restaurants? That's a surcharge...
- Any wine other than housewine? Probably as well...
- "Land trips to be paid on board"


Tons of services offered onboard which I am sure won't be cheap... so I am pretty sure the VAT will kick in somewhere...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 04.07.2016, 19:38
Oldhand's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,832
Groaned at 20 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 6,093 Times in 1,907 Posts
Oldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond reputeOldhand has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Travelling withing Schengen on a cruise... multiple entry or not?

In my experience booking through private companies for shore excursions, work out less and you dictate your route.

I've just had to cancel a Baltic city cruise as I've broke my foot and I booked a car for the bigger places. Anyway sorry this isn't answering your visa question.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Oldhand for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Travelling with baby -chennai to zurich - stroller needed or not Lisianthus Travel/day trips/free time 7 20.01.2014 07:43
Travelling within Schengen area: Permit pending renewal kvrbpl Permits/visas/government 2 18.04.2013 17:55
Visa Procedure Multiple Entry Visa/ Single Entry/ Double Entry? Nasrin Madrid-Abraham Permits/visas/government 1 24.01.2013 11:11
Travelling within EU with Ausweis and Australian passport (not linked to Ausweis) AngeK Permits/visas/government 4 08.08.2012 21:45
Just a thought on multiple nationalities and indefinite stay in Schengen standardgirl Permits/visas/government 11 21.09.2011 14:37


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0