Hi everyone,

Been hitting this board every now and then for answers to questions in the past, but now I’m in a unique situation. Basically, I’m worried about my B-Permit renewal because of a letter from the Cantonal Immigration office. (Direktion für Soziales und Sicherheit des Kantons Zürich Migrationsamt.) I would appreciate anyone’s informed opinion and suggestions about my situation.

The letter demanded information regarding my last employer and RAV/ALK benefits status. But my situation is complicated. Chronologically, here are the details:

Apr 2001: Move to CH with a new B-Permit, American citizenship
Nov 2004: Laid off, register with RAV, on ALK for only five weeks
Jan 2005: start with new company
Early Apr 2005: renew permit under new company
A few days later: agree to pre-dated Mar 2005 1 month layoff notice with new company. They’ve got cash flow problems and I’m not enjoying the job—in fact I hate it, so no complaints.
May 2005: re-register with RAV
Sep 2005: get off ALK, go to SE Asia to do volunteer work with Swiss-registered charity (five months). I keep my apartment, have someone check my bills, and stay insured.
Feb 2006: return, register with RAV, back on ALK
Early Apr 2006: drop off B-Permit and renewal form at Kreisburo with ALK stamp in employer’s section.
Mid-Apr 2006: agree to terms and conditions of employment with a new, third company; to start 1 Jun
18 Apr: receive above described letter from Cantonal Immigration, respond with all requested information plus a detailed account of what I have been up to.

…and now I’m sitting around waiting for news, either good or bad.

The letter seemed concerned that I was on ALK for the past 11 months and becoming dependant on social welfare. I found it very threatening as it quoted Swiss law and had an exclamation mark (!) in it…never seen that in any government correspondence before. So, I sent them the requested information plus additional information on my charity work, my new employment and contact data for everyone invoved—RAV, ALK, all employers, and the charity.

Note: my ALK benefits window expires at the end of Nov 2006 because of the two-year window and not because I’ve exhausted the supply of payable control days.

So, if anyone can relate a similar experience and can shed some light on what I can expect, not expect or any proactive steps I can take…well, I’d be very grateful. It’s only been 8 working days since my response was posted, but I’m very nervous. If the permit renewal is going to be refused then I’d like to just know it and get packing.

Cheers,

Stu

Richard can certainly give you a better answer as he's pretty knowledgable about this stuff, but I don't think you have too much to worry about permit-wise.

As I understand it, if you have paid AHV you are entitled to stay and claim all that the law entitles you to even if your permit runs out whilst you are unemployed ... a new permit will be issued for a short period of time.

It seems they think you are still unemployed and are basically trying to 'encourage' you to leave. I'd guess that the fact you quit the second job so soon makes them think that you had become addicted to welfare. Once they see the proof of the new job you should be OK. Even if you didn't have a new job, you could hold your ground and fight for a renewal anyway.

Gav

Looks like you've had more than 5 years on a B - if you were EU this would automatically become a C. Not sure what the current status is for US citizens, but these things are being relaxed all the time. Heck, if the CIA can shift illegal prisoners for the purposes of torture and use Swiss airspace with the blessing of the Swiss government, then I think you should at least be allowed to stay Except I don't make the rules....

Why not visit your friendly "Foreigner Control" department and your local gemeinde and ask them when you can have a C permit (don't include any details about your situation, just ask them what the rules are).

Hi Stu, I'm also American and I have to say, it's becoming more and more difficult to get any kind of working visa for the average US citizen. After 7 years with an A visa (remember those?!) they still didn't want to give me a B. The local tv heard of my case (I still don't know how) in 1994 and did a story on it. They reviewed my situation and immediately gave me a B. After 7 years with a B visa, they gave me a L visa (6 months) and told me after that I would have to leave the country for two years! I had a great salary, my bills were paid, I had never been in trouble with the law and never been on unemployment! I had to open my own company and apply for my own C visa.........that worked. Things are not getting more relaxed for the Americans as Mark seems to think. I talked to the ex boss from Movie Bar. Their staff were at one time almost all American. He said they couldn't get visas for them anymore, so in came the Swiss. Shame, Movie used to be such a great place to go out and feel like you were back home for a night!
Good luck Stu.....keep us posted

Thanks everyone for the responses so far.

Gav: Actually, I was laid off from the second job. I was happy about it and facilitated the action, but at the end of the day the my termination letter states that my dismissal was involuntary.

Mark: Yea, I had been half expecting the C-Permit process to begin this year. I understand there have been many changes lately with how permits are granted, but had been optimistic until this little disaster popped up. At this point, it is all about renewing the B. If that happens, then I'll inquire about the C.

KoKo: Thanks for the sobering story. While I'd prefer to renew the B, if they 'down graded' my residency to a L now then that would be...tolerable. This entire drama has taken me by surprise and I'm stressed about my short term prospects. (My time volunteering was self financed and I had the expectation of returning to work in Switzerland and start 'earning' again.)

Stu

Hey stu,

If you don't ask you don't get. Don't be afraid of pissing anyone off - remember the people in the gemeinde don't make the decisions, but they can tell you what the current guidelines are. If you are entitled to a C then you are entitled to a C - it could remove the whole B renewal permit thing altogether.

koko - I didn't outright state that things have got easier for Americans, though I do suspect that they have become easier than the experience you went through. If the local TV got involved then it was certainly not the norm! If you read what I wrote I was actually poking fun at the political situation concerning secret torture flights of the CIA than anything else. Sometimes it's always good to remember that despite our persecutions for being foreign that there are always people copping it worse than we are

That's for sure!

Yeah - once they eased up on the permits for EC people (practically automatic now and an EC B is almost as good as an old regular C) they made it worse for people in the 'second circle'.

Whilst previously if you were in a 'western', developed country like the USA or Aus it wasn't much harder to get a permit than an EC person .. Now you're either in the EC category (dead easy to get a permit with really good rights) or 'rest of the world' (pretty damn tough and you could get something rubbish like an L permit).


I feel your pain regarding the bar situation. I saw something similar happening in the Twist. Previously they had loads of backpackers/world travellers doing bar service during their time here and generally they were really good. They'd been travelling around working in bars all over the world and therefore knew the ropes, were friendly and chatty and very efficient at serving.

Of late, more and more of the staff have been Swiss and (coincidentally I'm sure...) crap. Apparently it's getting harder and harder to get short term permits for foreigners to work in jobs like bar staff and the authorities have been clamping down.

Rant coming on, red mist descending :-) It all came to a head for me during the Swiss/Ireland world cup qualifier a while back. The bar was _packed_ yet they had a grand total of THREE staff serving, all Swiss. The two girls on the bars (one front, one in the back) were absolutely crap at serving - taking ages to pour beers and as with all Swiss bar staff, totally unable to serve people in any sort of a fair order. The guy supposed to be collecting and washing the glasses plus doing other behind the scenes stuff was nowhere to be seen. By half time during the match I *still* hadn't managed to get any beers. Then they announced that they had run out of glasses and the staff stopped serving - obviously they had never heard of bottles or cans despite the fridges being stocked full of them. I'd had enough and went home.


At least the Nelson still seems to have some decent bar staff. It seems to be manned more by 'permanent' ex-pats though, so that might explain it.


Gav

Actually it's 5 years only for EU citizens, 10 years for all others.
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/fileadmin/us...Kategorien.pdf

There is a difference between B (1 year) and B-EG/EFTA (5 years).

It seems that there is a special agreement for US citizens, but they don't mention what exactly that means (http://www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?id=259).

My wife who is an Aussie but also has an EU passport has received the B permit for 5 years as EU citizen. They've told us at the immigration office in Zug that after 10 years being in CH, she can apply for an C permit. Now looking on admin.ch, this seems to be incorrect for EU citizens.

My experience is that the people from the Gemeinde do not always know the latest changes, so it's a good idea to check www.admin.ch first (maybe with someone who reads German well, if you live in Deutschschweiz) and take a printout with you.

More details on http://www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?id=626

For people from USA/Canada, you can apply for a C-Permit after 5 years uniterrupted stay here, but unlike EU-cits they have no right to it. Kinda puts you at the mercy of the rubber-stampers (and possession of a rubber stamp is 9/10ths of the law). Here it is in German:


Syschack, correct me if I am wrong, but from another thread I gathered you are a CH-Passholder? In this case your wifes nationality is irrelevant. She is entitled to a C-Permit after 5 years living in CH, so long as you guys are happily married. If not, if her nationality is on the above list then its 5 years.

Yup, I know. Actually, we probably will apply for the CH passport for her instead, which is also possible after 5 years being in CH and being married at least three years to a CH passport holder. It doesn't make sense to apply for a C permit, if she can have "the full candy".
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?id=141&S=2

I didn't point this out before, since it is a bit OT from the original thread...

Syshack,

You said your wife is an Aussie but also EU citizen. She was told 10 years for a C? If she is registered here under her Aussie passport this would beg the question - why?

I'm a tri-national, but I'm registered under my EU pass in CH - I figured from the beginning that I'd suffer from (comparitively) less discrimination this way.

Um there are some interesting things here but I think most have been covered somewhere along the thread. Yes you can after five years as a US citizen call on the MoU from 1995 and apply for a C permit. No you have no right to a C permit. And I guess you are asking where your problem is?

You tried to get a job is the answer. As a US citizen it is well possible to claim unemployment money and when this right exists they are not permited not to renew your permit. Once however you have a job offer then you are at the mercy of the pen pushers because your right to a permit is immediately removed. Now you are effectively needing to apply for a permit for the job. This is normal for non-EU citizens changing roles and not having a C permit or right of stay through some other means ie marriage.

So the way round this is to ensure that the company that now wants to employ you is prepared to fight for the permit. Hopefully you already have it by now. And it is fact that for non-EU citizens it is appreciably more difficult to get a permit and also to get a permit renewed. Ls and Gs are no problem but Bs are.

(sorry, misread your post...deleted objection)

Update: I sign my new contract tomorrow afternoon and will be sending off a copy to the immigration folks. A week later than I had promised them, but that should be OK I think. No responses yet from the immigration people.

I've yet to check up on the C-permit possibilities but will do so this week.

One other things I have just thought about and I admit I do not know the answer is the definition of ununterbrochenen Wohnsitz. As far as I am aware with a B permit a foreign visit of duration more than 3 months constitutes a break in your Wohnsitz and as a consequence your period of residence will start again from zero. This is unless the break is caused by education or work. How voluntary help is considered I have no idea but seeing as CH is the home of several help and charitable organisations I could well imagine it is okay.

This probably will only be relevant in a C permit application, but thought it is worth mentioning.

On my permit it says 6 months for going abroad. This is in Bern though. Hmm, sorry, this applies to your B permit becoming unvalid if you are away >6 months; this may be independent of the problem of total residence time accumulated, in which case ignore my comment.

Hi guys,

first of all, my best wishes to Stu for his renewal!


Then a small question. Today, finally, after more than two months I got my "EG/EFTA B" permit. Now, I supposed (and sort of got from your posts) that these should be valid for 5 years, so why on mine is written "gueltig fuer die ganze Shweiz bis 27.02.2007"? Does it mean it is automatically renewed every year for the next five years or that they don't trust me and they want to keep an eye on me?

Cheers

How long is your contract for? If <1, then they can restrict the length, if >1, it should be 5 years for EU citizens.

Actually they did the same here in Zug to my wife: 1 year EG/EFTA B permit, then the next year when we went to renew it (it does not happen automatically, you have to go to the immigration department yourself and initiate it) they extended the stay permit to 5 year then.
If I recall it correctly, they told us this is common practice.
Well, it might be also a Kantönligeist thing ...

My contract is a standard academic contract, which means that is a renewable one-year contract regardless of the fact that my group expects me to stay here for the entire duration of the project, i.e. 2 to 4 years. I guess next year I'll try and renew it and I'll ask if I can get a 5 year one.

Although I read that starting June next year they might remove the permit concept for EU citizens altogether due to the bilateral arrangements and have something like an "intrinsic C-permit". Anyone knows anything more about it?

Dev