So if on Monday your job is gone because they are moving it to another country, you are no longer wanted. Move back to where you come and unable to find work because of cheap labour, would you still have the same opinion?

It is a really crap world at the moment and everyone is really a cheap resource and it is changing fast now. So many peolpe do not see this, it is all in the name of profits and sod any human costs.

Nice to think one is important and wanted but the truth is everyone is dispensable and can/will/maybe replaced by cheaper options.

Switzerland cannot house the whole of the third world or come to lots of people from the EU.

Everyone wants a better life and for me of course I want the best for my children, which is the main reason I am here.

unfortunatly I doubt the situation will ease as the outsourcing companies have ways round the permit issue, in my previous job here the whole department (130 people) where 'outsourced' first onshore now offshore.

Thats 130 well paid permie and contract positions for people living and contributing to the swiss economy now with fresh out of uni grads in india, but its ok because they got 3 of them for the price of 1 of us.

Oh and the ones I keep in contact with, most are still on the RAV a year later.

One way around the permit issue is for the outsourcing companies to hire Europeans. Now, it may sound odd that a client would outsource, say, their IT only for that outsourcing company to hire the same people that would have been hired by the client anyway, but hey. That's how I got my job out here

Just like to add, its swings and roundabouts, I remember in the late 90's when vast amount of IT jobs where being lost to outsourcing / offshoring, I can't think of a single company I worked for (I was contracting at the time so worked for quite a few) where it actually worked out and they all ended up bringing the work back in house one way or another.

I also know several companies who burned their fingers in off-shoring at that time but that was ten years ago. Now those same companies are going back to China and India - this time with apparent success.

I know more companies then you know who out sourced then in sourced

Agree, I also see more jobs of the liason/co-ordinator type for managing the off shore resources.

This discussion on companies on and off shoring is very interesting; but would like bring this thread back to centre.

The reduction of permits for parties not already in Switzerland is a good thing; dont take it personally, but societies and governments need to act in the interests of the people making up the society they are belong too.

If we let the world be run by corporations then we all be up s**t creek; since the great majority have absolutely no long term interests in anything beyond making as much money as possible for the tiny minority by exploiting the majority.

Personally I don't agree that the reduction in permits is a good thing - it's a step in the wrong direction to my mind.

I do see your point and why your personal circumstance mean that for you, it's a good thing. But just because it's what you think, and it fits well for your specific case (possibly) it doesn't make it a good policy.

I wonder if you'd think the same way if your own permit was one of the ones being "reduced", which would force your hand in moving your family to somewhere totally new. You can rest assured that this situation may not have happened to you, but it is happening somewhere, to someone.

I guess that calls in to question whether you have a sense of wider social responsibility, or if you prefer to just defend your own castle (so to speak) - each to their own on that one, and neither is right or wrong - but there is another side to the discussion than the one you're seeing.

I do get where you're coming from as I was out of work here for 4 months in 2007, without having been here long enough to qualify for the RAV. Thank your lucky stars that you had that safety net for as long as you have. And bear in mind that as was pointed out before, without the high turnover of short term taxpayers churning through the Swiss job market, that RAV system simply would not be feasible.

I agree with the OP, he was clearly capable of one job he went for interview but they told him he was too experienced for the job even though he was happy to work in the role.

How does having someone coming in who is non-eu to fill that job help?

Really is there not enough bright talented people in Switzerland and the EU who cannot fill these jobs?

This is a really small country and in terms of the number of people employed is pretty small. Is the education in Switzerland and the rest of the EU so poor that only the real clever and talented people live/exist out of this area?

Finally he obviously has settled for sometime in Switzerland and wants to remain here so I can see he wants to defend what he has, why not?

I do not see that is wrong.

I commented on this in similar thread but here it comes again: CH has free movement of labour agreement and so CH citizens can work and receive unemployment benefits in EU countries and vice versa. for example US job market is not open to Europeans and even if one makes it over the pond, the health care and social system blows. Therefore I'm in full support to limit or fully close CH/EU labour market to RoW. There are enough unemployed here already so we need to take care of them first and foremost. There are plenty of non-EU here to compete so no reason to continue flooding of a saturated market

I think that it would be wiser if the government actually make it more difficult to hire people from abroad if they are unskilled workers, this has started in other EU countries. But on the other hand make it at least reasonable to bring skilled workers, meaning highly trained people who are actually going to enrich the country's economic system.
I had to wait for my visa for a EU country for 6 months because they wanted to make sure I would not live off their welfare system, and I was actually going there because I had won a scholarship with everything paid so it really made no sense to make me wait so much (and by the way miss so many classes!!!).
I do not know if this restriction of working permits makes any difference between unskilled and skilled migrants

My 2 cents as a Non EU permit holder ... I have worked and lived in 7 different countries and needed a permit to work. In all cases the job and the permit were linked. So if I lost my job or quit, the permit lapsed and I would have to leave. Inspite of paying into the social security, would never be eligible for unemployment benefits.

Reduction or increase in the Non - EU quota ( as it is small ) in my opinion does not really affect the local job market. The high burden of proof ( to prove skill shortage), the admin and hassle the companies need to go through are not worth neglecting locally available talent.

OECD predicts a significant skill shortage in the EU from 2015, ageing population ...etc, more retired people than working people paying into the social systems. Closing borders is probably not going to help revive the economy.

hi there, could you explain the new law and when it takes effect? Is is fewer B permits, fewer C permits, or both?

No effect on C permits; unclear about B permits; depends on nationality.

I think it is for new B permits..not sure though

I would think a company would have to pay the migrant worker the same market rate as someone already living here. Could be wrong though

But they have absolutely no problem taking in foreigners money into secret bank accounts

Good for myopic countries like Switzerland