(see last line for the point)

So, Switzerland is restricting workers entering into the country. Let me wax globally historical about this.

Long time ago:
First we, the common people, were surfs. Bound to land and not permitted to travel to find work. Industrialization had not come about yet.
(The Swiss farmed and traded)

In the recent past:
Industrialization occurred and human rights got the nod as the common people
revolted. A few heads rolled and those that wanted to stay in power became captains of industry and trade. The common people moved to the work in the cities or onwards to colonize. Class/Cast system very strong.
(The Swiss build industry, continued to farm and trade)

Yesterday post World Wars:
Industrial modernization, goods easily moved around the globe. Industry moved, with some cost, to where the resources were best (cheap labor, cheap materials) but restricted mostly because of lack of 'first world' infrastructure in most country's. Us, the common people, could migrate to better prospects with complete ease. 10% of the world population own 85% of the wealth.
(The Swiss build modern industry and get on to Banking and other high order services)

Today, Information age:
Money moves at the speed of light, and in vast amounts (the entire GDP of America and UK combined... A DAY) with incredible amounts of speculation (5% of all that money is considered 'real assets'). Industry is highly mobile and has its pick of large numbers of industrialized countries. Borders are becoming more restricted with Governments restricting the right to migrate to work. Populations of technologically advanced countries rapidly aging. Populations of technologically under developed countries, but industrialized, increasing and wanting to travel to the prior.
(The Swiss focus on high technological and banking services. Restrict access to migrant workers, tend to a social system facing a tipping point,try to address the inequality in wealth).

Tomorrow.. well.. my crystal ball is blurry at the moment
but.. I expect tightening of immigrant workers rights will get worse.

CK

How do you know?

I am sorry you are having difficulties finding a job. But having read several threads now about the glut of technology workers, the severe downward pressure on IT jobs, and the effects of outsourcing/offshoring, it seems that you are blaming too many permits on your inability to find employment.

There are procedures for granting a permit, and one is that the job was advertised locally, and there is no one in the local talent pool. I also understand that the Suisse authorities are looking very closely at an applicant company's compliance with the rules.

Again, I am sorry for your personal circumstance, but it sounds like you are railing against permits, when that isn't the issue - it's a seismic change in the way IT is delivered.

Your joking. They hire overseas; bring them here and well pay less... why do you think the market rates in IT have been dropping thru the floor.

This is an urban myth my friend. In my previous company I sat in a meeting with a senior manager who told the "management" that all future hires would be through overseas companies X & Y; who funny enough only employ Indians. Needless to say by the time I left 95% of the staff were L permit holding X & Y consultants. No attempt was being made to advertise or hire anybody locally; have you or indeed anybody ever heard of a company being found guilty of this breaking this rule? The only way to break such policies to restrict permits; which is why the permit reduction is a good thing.

You may never know... may be she really married a Bond, James Bond!!

A company closing its one of the departments because could not hire a person!!! LMAO ... you started my morning with a good laughter... Thanks Swisspea!

... and pray, what is wrong with that? When these hires from X & Y can do the same job as you, possibly better and that at a better rate?

These X & Y L-permit holders contribute to the very system which pays you your unemployment moolah. At the same time, they never get a penny out of it. I do not see a way how the firm you used to work for, could even dream of being competitive in a global environment, if they decided to kick out X & Y and keep you instead.

As a person, I feel bad that you have your current employment problems. But, having said that, I think packing-off a few L permit holders back to their homes is just a political gimmick and may not really help you out, even in the short term.

A few ok; but an entire department, some 80 individuals; no... this is simply a joke. As for paying my RAV; If the company wasn't able to hire them then there would be more opportunity for me and I wouldn't need RAV. As for being competitive; this is a joke too, the company in question makes billions a year in profit.

corporate f-ing greed! profits at all costs... human welfare, social responsibility, local obligations are not important...

That is the problem, other EU countries have set limits to minimum wages for "skilled migrants" that is a smart move to stop cheap labour at least in the skilled migrants part.

shortsided approach..encorages offshoring!

Wouldn't the permit application simply be denied in this case? If so, how would that be something that anyone would hear about in the larger community? A company certainly wouldn't want to advertise that.

It seems to me that the best way to keep from unintended consequences is to make certain the existing requirements are followed. Establish the principles, and ensure the principles are followed.

What I don't fully understand about your position is that you are an expat. Had the quotas been lower, perhaps you wouldn't be in CH. Isn't an expat on a work permit insistin on lower quotas for work permits someone who is trying to close the door behind himself?

Again, good luck in your job search.

Does that mean that they were not going to put forth a good faith attempt to find someone locally?

Generally, yes. Even though it's illegal.

I've worked for a number of multinationals and been directly involved in outsourcing. The usual way for the multis to get around the restrictions is to contract the work to a local branch of an outsourcer (and thus, in the eyes of the law at least, find someone locally) who will initially fill the roles with "their" people from the local permit pool before moving the work fully overseas.

In my last role, I worked with a woman who was told she was being made redundant because her job could be done cheaper by someone else. That's not redundancy, it's constructive dismissal, the job still exists but the corporation decided to get someone cheaper to do it.

It seems to me that all CH is doing is applying the rules as they are written - something which the UK has been ignoring for years, to the detriment of an entire industry.

Dont you think you were one of them who started this... since you are here for so many years..

I don't know the laws in CH, but anyone who participated in such an endeavor in the US would be guilty of conspiracy to commit fraud. Thus, hopefully, a law abiding employee would contact the authorities.

As I said earlier, establish the principles, and then enforce them. The system only works if people obey the rules, and when good people see them being broken, they report that illegal conduct.

as the op doesn't work for an outsourcer, so wasn't being paid lower then bargain basement rates, and actually lives and contributed to the swiss economy, then I'd say no, he wasn't.

Sorry, but your standpoint is just the kind of SVP rubbish everyone who knows the job statistics can prove wrong. I am sorry for your individuat situation, but your view is just complete bullshit:

"IT is a terribly underpaid industry with no jobs and terribly low rates."
Sorry, but do you really live in Switzerland?
- I know people who just got themselves new contracts with daily rates in the four digits. I know the rates were higher five years back, but you can more than comfortably live on the money and average IT guy gets here. And if you are in banking IT, things are even better.
- I am sorry to say it so directly: You have been unemployed for how long? A long time and I simply guess you are one of the people who want to work and therefore sent out many applications and had many interviews. If it really never worked out, you should at least try to figure out if there might be something else wrong than all the bloody foreigners (and I will ignore the irony of you being an immigrant yourself). In IT, the world changes fast. What education do you have? If you happen to be on the lower end of IT, like a network admin or the like: Sorry, your jobs are gone. Not through some cheap stupid immigrants, but because IT advanced and there is simply far less work to be done. This was a slow development, and smart people have foreseen it and educated themselves in a new field with more demand. If you happened to be one of the ones who was overtaken by those developments, do not blame immigrants for it. Or as my professor for databases once said "I used to have expert knowledge on punchcards, this will not land me jobs today. In IT you will have to continue your education far more than in other industries". He is right.

"The permit reduction is good for me"
I do not think so. I know cases where the permit was rejected for IT specialists. What will happen? The company will wait till June to see if more permits will be available. If not, the jobs will be moved overseas. You will not get a better chance, the taxed income is moved. Switzerland loses.


And finally: I find your view "I have settled, so I should get a job first" just as bad as "Swiss jobs for Swiss people" or whatever else the neonazis here use... The average EF user is too smart for those slogans. The job market is a free market and we live in a globalized world - even more so in IT. If you want a job, you need to offer the right knowledge for the right price. I am not arguing that it was difficult to find a job in the last 20 months, but blaming other people for your own problems is the easy way out all extremists used...

I've worked in IT since the mid 1990s and have seen waves of outourcing and insourcing, offshoring, nearshoring etc etc

I'm not going to sit here and blame someone else for taking 'my' job at a lower rate. I'm going to be competitive and hopefully show an employer there's more value in employing me. If rates drop too far and my skills no longer bring home the bacon . . . well, it's time to try a new profession.

I think there's definitely an argument for slowing down the pace of change with regard to labour market liberalisation, so as those affected have time to adjust . . . but there's no getting away from the global juggernaut and long-term protectionism does not bring a net benefit.