Hi,

I need to travel to France and Italy next week from Geneva. I dont currently have my passport as its at the Chinese embassy to get a visa.

Would my permit B be sufficient to cross the border? I don't really have any other form of ID as I don't have a drivers licence.

Any tips would be really appreciated!

Cheers,
Alan

It seems to me that this is a question that would be best answered by the competent authorities. Can you call them and inquire?

Anything we could offer as suggestions / comments / ideas would be guesses.

Honestly would'nt really know who I should call...

afaik is the permit only valid in combination with your passport. This might have changed with the new credit card format permits, but I doubt it.

Perhaps (I am not sure) you want the Federal Customs Administration.

Website here, with contact phone number.

But the other thing you need to consider is how you are going to get into France and Italy. Will they let you in without a passport and/or visa?

I doubt that the permit B is enough to cross the boarder, maybe call the Migrationsamt (http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home.html), I think they can tell you. Maybe as an EU national it is ok with only the permit B, who knows.

If I remember correctly, China embassy can be quiet fast with issuing visa if needed, maybe you can get your passport back on time?

It'll only be a problem if you get asked for ID. How often do people get asked for ID post-Schengen? Pre-Schengen, I know people who've travelled within the EU with just their CH residency/work permits, without problem.

I personally wouldn't do it, as I'm very risk averse. Your mileage may vary.

As a non-EU holding a B permit, I haven't had problems when crossing borders over rail to IT, FR, DE, AT as well as to Vaduz without my traveldoc / passport for day trips. Maybe it was because of the means of travel ( rail plus a subsidiary form of Swiss ID - the GA ).

That's what happened to us yesterday

We had an appointment near the border with Germany, but still in Switzerland.
Coming home we did avoid the autobahn because of the traffic and though to drive trough the villages, without be aware that the road make you cross in the german territory for a couple of kilometres.
We did bump into a police check just after re-enter the Swiss border.

We were carrying a B and a L permit with both swiss driving licences but we didn't have the passport or the ID card.
We've been told the we are not allowed to cross the border without carrying an ID and the swiss driving licence is not considered an ID. The intention was not to go in Germany but, very enough, our mistake and we couldn't complain.
It took a bit of time and we had to deal with their a bit disrespectful behaviour but they let us go.
(I forgot to mention that we had a copy of the passports in the car, but they didn't want even have a look at them because "a copy is a copy")

Because the policemen didn't even ask about the car's document, we are assuming that it was a personal check more than a road check.
If that's the case, I wonder if we should bring the passport every time that we go for a mountain bike ride near the border......

You need legit ID. That's all. As they said, driver's licence is not an approved ID document - something I find bizzare - however, you can get (as an auslander) a swiss ID card as a credit-card style document, rather than the paper wallet they give, which would be acceptable. I find it odd that they did not accept your B/L permits. I've used these frequently without issue.

However, don't forget that CH is in Schengen, so officially, you don't have to provide ID on crossing the border - only in the case of spot/random checks, and there really, they are simply applying the "you must be able to identify yourself within a certain time-frame" rule. The guys you ran into were clearly just being difficult - which is unfortunately what they can do...

Lately as of early this year, travel by rail from CH through or to DE is increasingly challenged, more so for non-EU.

Not only a valid CH permit is required, but the uniformed officers who board the train also insist on a passport or equivalent travel document.

When my passport is off at an embassy for a visa, I routinely cross the border with my B-permit, my driving license, and a photocopy of my passport.

My theory is like that of the previous poster: on the unlikely chance that I'm stopped, I can produce all of the documentation and explain the situation. I will, no doubt, get a telling-off from the border guards for travelling without the proper documentation and I'll be told not to do it again, but I'm almost certain they'll let me back into the country (or I can come back later and try to pass again when the border is unmanned).

In reality, I've never been stopped so haven't put this theory to the test, but I'm confident enough that it won't be a problem that I'm prepared to chance it.

Hmmm...

In the 4 European countries I have lived until now, everytime I go register myself on the Town Hall/ Police (whatever the case) I was warned that I must carry a valid personal ID or a valid Passport at all times. When I had to renew one of them, I was always given a temporary ID to keep with the rule.

Is it different for non-EU? Shouldn't the Chinese Embassy have given something similar to the OP?

The official rule in CH (has been discussed before ) is that you need to be able to provide ID within a specific time frame... HOWEVER, border police and regularly police can detain you if they have reason to doubt you are legit - unfortunately this is a power they have and can use with impunity. Usually it simply comes down to what mood the person you are dealing with is in.

Just after our arrival in Switzerland few months ago, I went to the nearest police station asking exactly which documents we must carry while in Switzerland. I've been told the permit+driving licence are enough and that we don't need the passport.
Yesterday we accidentally cross the border, that's the problem.

In Australia the driving licence is considered an ID, in Switzerland not, neither a swiss one.
Now we know !

I remember quite a few years ago being stopped on the border.
We just had our Permits with us. What was most interesting was that the guard pressed a few buttons on the computer and details of everything were there.
He asked how Mr S enjoyed working for the company he was with and if the children liked being at a swiss school!!
I imagine (especially nowadays )that every bit of information on you is readily available to any authority that needs it.

Yesterday one of them just took our permits, made a telephone call and said "Don't move, stay in the car!", with the finger pointed aswell.
We must have a criminal face......we poor stupid auslanders that did avoid the autobahn

didn't notice any computer...

Never been asked to show ID. But advised to carry it as anything could happen. For instance, sb I know was stopped at the border for speeding (they said to him that he was speeding) but he wasn't speeding at all. however he then asked to show ID. German with a German car number plate.
So you could be stopped for any reason.

However once I crossed the border 4 times without passport n permit.
It was accidental.
I crossed without knowing I had any. So crossed back to CH. then, went Schaffhausen to see the fall. After sightseeing, heading home. But a navi led us to Germany. Only realized after seeing Bundersrepublik.... sign. What a crap!!!
Very luckily none of these 4 times, never been asked or stopped. Phew~~~~~~

But don't count on your luck!