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  #301  
Old 25.03.2014, 01:13
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

I wonder how events will transpire for the owner of an American Staffordshire Terrier in the Tessin who bit a 6 year old girl in the face last week.

The dog was not on a leash and not wearing a muzzle.
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  #302  
Old 25.03.2014, 08:47
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

According to the 20 minutes article yesterday the girl's father doesn't think the dog should be put down, he blames the owner quite rightly.

Sad news Sbrinz. Make the most of the time together you have left and remember the happy times you had.
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  #303  
Old 25.03.2014, 09:11
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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I wonder how events will transpire for the owner of an American Staffordshire Terrier in the Tessin who bit a 6 year old girl in the face last week.

The dog was not on a leash and not wearing a muzzle.
Well the law can only do so much as the owner is Italian and not resident in Switzerland so did not have to do any training or tests.

Clearly he was clueless as he brought an 8-month-old dog into an environment where children were playing, allowed it to get very excited and did not have it under control.

Don't blame the AmStaff, blame the owner. It does not need a muzzle but in this circumstance, it definitely needed restraining and that would have prevented the incident.

Needless to say the dog owner falls into the stereotypical AmStaff chav class from what I understand.
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  #304  
Old 25.03.2014, 09:14
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Well the law can only do so much as the owner is Italian and not resident in Switzerland so did not have to do any training or tests.

Clearly he was clueless as he brought an 8-month-old dog into an environment where children were playing, allowed it to get very excited and did not have it under control.

Don't blame the AmStaff, blame the owner. It does not need a muzzle but in this circumstance, it definitely needed restraining and that would have prevented the incident.

Needless to say the dog owner falls into the stereotypical AmStaff chav class from what I understand.
Yes, some breeds are definitely pre-dispositioned to have bad owners. My brother bought a huge Pit Bull back in his "drug dealer" days, because it looked tough. Cavaliers (for example) aren't popular with that crowd.
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Old 25.03.2014, 10:14
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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I wonder how events will transpire for the owner of an American Staffordshire Terrier in the Tessin who bit a 6 year old girl in the face last week.

The dog was not on a leash and not wearing a muzzle.
I was going out of our door with Deedee about a month ago, when I saw this pitbull being walked by a lady with a pram, no leash and I suddenly see the dog running towards us...I had the time (barely) to pull deedee inside but I thought this is it I lost the dog...Once she was inside, I asked the lady who had stopped to watch her dog jumping on my door (the freaking B***!) to restrain her dog, she act like I was the nuissance...*sigh*
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  #306  
Old 25.03.2014, 10:48
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

All the legislation doesn't seem to do much because no one is enforcing compliance.

If the owners don't take it upon themselves to stick to the rules, the only thing I think will work is checks and fines.

There was a very interesting article in the local paper a few weeks ago which described perfectly the various types of dog owners. It was in German titled "Er Machts nichts - er will nur Spielen. I have heard this far too many times.

Here is the link to the article (in German)
http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/leben/...elen-127723082

Here is an English translation (courtesy of google)

Encounters with dogs and dog owners can have their pitfalls. For walkers and hikers avoid any nasty surprises without four-legged friends , we provide a small , not entirely serious typology of dog owners and their companions.

The jogger

His dog is just as athletic as he himself - and so quickly. This dog owner will change a word with you , because the performance of their sports could rob the crucial hundredths of a second .

The dog is a sports equipment and not a cuddly object for them. Therefore, they are past you faster than you can perceive at all. Only If you stand in their way , it could lead to unpleasant confrontations.

The Worried About

With a street mix he would never leave . His dogs are purebred , handy and exclusive. Because he has so much fear and concern for his dog, he is determined not to let him near you .

You can rest easy : Once you are closer than ten feet away, he will immediately take him on a leash or provide the same in the handbag . Because you might as well stand on it accidentally on him. Or worse : being a dog thief.

The Social

He is usually accompanied by a friend or relative go. This talk incessantly stand still and keep forgetting here is that the dog they are actually due to go.

You'll get to feel unfortunately , because the dog usually is as socially and would like to be pampered by you . And woe because you do not find that funny! Then you will have the whole life story and all the adventures of the four-legged learn within a few minutes - and especially how he loved but is .

The Soziophobiker

As soon as someone comes along , it changes the side of the road , takes his dog on foot and goes without you worthy of a glance , past you .

Often there are retirees who see their task is to force every ounce of obedience from her dog in order to impress the environment. Here, then, threatens absolutely no risk .

These dogs are so well trained that they would also avoid the master without human contact well . Because they do not know that you could jump around too freely .

The Indifferent

Dog walking Walking is a chore for that dog owners. Therefore perceived as wasted time he wants to make good use of . For example, by holding the personal social network in motion .

Therefore, he often runs phoning or typing through the area - and the dog bored beside her . Since it is for the four- legged friend but a godsend when someone walked past , who turns him some attention.

And if you do not respond , he will definitely wagging his tail , remember jumping up or barking it. Those who do not particularly likes the direct contact dogs , should these holders - and dogs - out of the way .

The beginners

He has to go only recently a dog or need short term with the dog 's girlfriend for a walk and is therefore still a bit clumsy in dealing with him.

He likes to admit , and possibly also warns you from afar. Only you good is not much. Most his dog is still young and playful and excited about each new encounter. Best to go by without making eye contact to him , or else you will surely started.

The pack holder

He always appeared with at least three or more dogs , which usually do not all belong to him , but friends or neighbors.

He just has fun with it , to be on the road with a whole horde . This indicates that he has some practice with quadrupeds and this has usually also well under control.

Nevertheless, it can sometimes run a little out of hand , because he suddenly loses the overview. A certain distance is advisable here , you do not want to be equal overwhelmed by the whole pack.

The Incorrigible

He has no understanding that one can dogs simply do not like and maybe even afraid of them . When you hear the saying , " It does not matter - he just wants to play ," you take on the best the same flight.

Especially if you are traveling with light-colored clothes in rainy weather and want to save the subsequent transition to the cleaners.

Discussion You can also save , you will be so otherwise possibly even labeled as dog haters and potential dog Ever poisoners .
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Old 25.03.2014, 15:01
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Post script: the dog collapsed 2 weeks ago. She had an emergency operation to remove a cancerous spleen, and sadly the future doesn't look good, she has a very aggressive cancer. Maybe only a few more months left for her, but we will give her a good life, before she has to be put to sleep.
Sbrinz, I am so sorry to hear this.

May you enjoy the remaining time together, may you take comfort knowing that our dogs live in the moment, enjoying each and every day with no thought for the future - and when the sad day comes may it be peaceful.

Good for you for standing by this dog. She is lucky to count you as a friend.
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Old 25.03.2014, 15:11
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Yes, some breeds are definitely pre-dispositioned to have bad owners. My brother bought a huge Pit Bull back in his "drug dealer" days, because it looked tough. Cavaliers (for example) aren't popular with that crowd.
I would turn that statement around, as I wouldn't want to saddle any dog of any breed with a negative 'predisposition':

Rather, 'some bad owners tend towards certain breeds.'


It bears remembering that the much maligned pit bull was the most highly decorated service dog in WWI, due to it's intelligence, trainability, and ability to bond so strongly to it's people - even today many are trained as search and rescue dogs. It should also be remembered that the 'Kampfmaschine' staffy is, contrary to the prevalent media image today, also known as the 'nanny dog' because it tends to be so good with children. Both make great family pets in the right, knowlegeable, hands. In the wrong hands any dog could be a problem.

It's irresponsible owners, without a clue or a conscience, who are to blame - not the dogs. But the poor dogs have paid, and will continue to pay, the price for human idiocy. Sadly, all too often the dogs pay the ultimate price.
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  #309  
Old 30.04.2014, 01:46
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Sad news Sbrinz. Make the most of the time together you have left and remember the happy times you had.
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Sbrinz, I am so sorry to hear this.

May you enjoy the remaining time together, may you take comfort knowing that our dogs live in the moment, enjoying each and every day with no thought for the future - and when the sad day comes may it be peaceful.

Good for you for standing by this dog. She is lucky to count you as a friend.
Thank you for your good wishes!

The dog is, if anything, better than before! I am no fan of Homeopathy, but something is working! She chases squirrels, barks at dogs she doesn't like, generally she is in good form, and no sign of ill health. So keeping paws crossed!
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Old 30.04.2014, 01:55
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

3 new regulations for keeping dogs & cats are being worked on.

The major one for everyone is that dogs must go out for a walk everyday.

Dog & cat transport boxes (Also in cars) must be large enough for the dog/cat to stand up and to lay down and stretch their legs out.

Animals must not be actively ill bred to create "monstrosities"

http://www.petfinder.ch/service/news...a6308383c.html
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Old 30.04.2014, 14:12
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

FYI, the official announcement from the BLV is here:
http://www.blv.admin.ch/aktuell/0161...e&msg-id=52776

While all these points are already addressed in the current TSchV (Articles 8 and 72 address kenneling, article 70 addresses social contact, article 71 addresses movement and exercise, article 28 addresses breeding) there is still to much left to interpretation, often to the detriment of the animal.

I am happy to hear that more precise language is being considered. As with so many things in Switzerland, those whom the law is trying to address are usually the ones who skirt around it. Switzerland has some of the strictest animal protection law in the western world on the books - unfortunately enforcement is lax. I hope the proposed changes address enforcement as well as requirements.

I will be very happy to see more specifics addressing abusive breeding. As it stands now, although the law forbids ‘Qualzucht’ definitions are IMO too vague, and too many breeders continue with impunity . In my breeds, for instance, it is still difficult to prosecute a breeder of double merles. I hope new language will put some real teeth into anti-Qualzucht legislation.
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Old 30.04.2014, 14:45
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

In principle I believe these are good ideas. Only problem I have is when you bring in laws that are hard to enforce or are not enforced then it brings all laws into disrespect... Then people ignore them.

For example, walking my dog every day is a good idea (I usually walk them three or four times). But I do not see the local police will post a 24hour watch on my house to ensure I comply.....?
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Old 30.04.2014, 15:09
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Good point, Marton.

The current law on daily movement is:

Art. 71 Bewegung

1 Hunde müssen täglich im Freien und entsprechend ihrem Bedürfnis ausgeführt werden. Soweit möglich sollen sie sich dabei auch unangeleint bewegen können.
2 Können sie nicht ausgeführt werden, so müssen sie täglich Auslauf haben. Der Aufenthalt im Zwinger oder an der Laufkette gilt nicht als Auslauf.


Now I like this, as the important bit is 'entsprechend ihrem Bedürfnis... Soweit möglich', as appropriate to the needs of the animal, as far as possible. This gives a good dog owner room for judgement as to the needs of the individual animal. So Hooligan gets her 3 hour trek up the mountainside and wobbly arthritic Belltie bumbles around the garden. Neither goes off lead in public spaces because A.) we live in canton SZ where off lead is illegal and B.) one is going deaf and losing his sight, and the other's recall is only 95%. In my best judgement, putting safety first, both are best kept on lead. Off lead running is done at the Hundeschule and in my private garden.

The specific needs of each dog is met.

I do hope that the new language will include an 'entsprechend ihrem Bedürfnis... Soweit möglich' clause, as forcing a dog to whose health or behavioral issues contraindicate a daily walk would be cruel, and forcing a dog off lead whose recall is less than 100% perfect and immediate in all situations woiuld be, frankly, madness.

Good owners already do the things that the new regs seek to codify. It's the irresponsible minority, as always.
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  #314  
Old 26.06.2014, 18:04
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Hi,

I'm a new user of this Forum; having discovered it, it has proved very useful, so thanks to all.

My husband and I are moving to Munchenstein in Basel-Land shortly with our dog. We adopted her from the Dogs Trust (in England); the documentation they provided simply states that she is a cross-breed. However, the Dogs Trust and we are fairly certain that she is a German Shepherd crossed with, possibly, a Rottweiler.

We understand that Rottweilers and Rottweiler-crosses are considered as potentially dangerous dogs in BL, and that they require Special Licences. However, we have been unable to find out what this entails, in terms of everyday life. Unfortunately we are still learning German (having only had a few months of notice of our move) so navigating around our local community or canton website to find out is well beyond us! The relocation company doesn't seem to know or want to know either.

Would anyone be able to tell us what this might entail? Is an individual assessment of both ourselves and the dog made? Would she have to wear a muzzle, always be on the lead no-matter where she is?

If it helps, Popper (our dog) is a neutered female of (estimated) nearly 2 years old. We attended an 8-week training class and had an additional week of one-to-one training with a wonderful ex-police dog handler/trainer (both using reward-based training in case anyone is interested) and we have continued with her training ourselves.

When she came to us, she had had very little in the way of socialisation; had been abandoned and was found fending for herself on the streets. We have had her for a year, and she has grown in confidence around dogs and other people. She used to be timid and overwhelmed around other dogs, and was and still can be submissive when she meets new people. She can get very enthusiastic when she meets some people (but not all), and will jump right up if allowed, which can be pretty un-nerving for some people (even dog-lovers). However, she doesn't do this with children (probably because they are not much taller than she is!). This is the only area that we are still struggling with, otherwise she walks well on the lead, her re-call is good, and we can stop her barking (if another dog walks past the garden fence) etc. We know that we will have to take her to 'retrospective' training classes, and are really happy to do so!

Anyway, I could blither on about Popper for ages - she is a lovely, friendly dog and we wouldn't move to Switzerland if we couldn't take her.

If anyone has any information or advice they could give, I would be very grateful. Apologies if this topic has been covered already and I have missed it.

Thanks!
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Old 26.06.2014, 18:27
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Contact the Veterinäramt in Baselland:

Adresse
Veterinär-, Jagd- und
Fischereiwesen
Ebenrainweg 25
CH-4450 Sissach

Veterinärwesen
Tel. 061 552 59 04
Fax 061 552 69 54
vjf@bl.ch

Here is the page on listed dogs:
http://www.baselland.ch/hundefachste....273517.0.html

And here is the application form:
http://www.baselland.ch/fileadmin/ba...efaehrlich.pdf

And here is the text of the law, including what is needed to apply for the permit: See especially 'Herkunftnachweis', 'Bewilligung' and Kynologische Fachkenntnisse'.
http://www.baselland.ch/342-12-htm.289672.0.html

I included these links just so that you know what kind of information they will be looking for - before you do anything, though, first speak to the Veterinäramt.

I would strongly urge you to go directly to the source, as these are the folks who will be making decisions. The experiences of folks here will be useful as an insight, but only the Veterinäramt can give you definitive answers.

If you do not speak German you will need someone in your corner who does. Is your employer providing relocation help, and if so would the company supply a translator? If not, hire one privately. Preferably a dog owner who truly understands your concerns.

---ETA:

Just saw your comment about the relo company not wanting to help. Fire them. Seriously. Your company is paying big bucks to make this move happen; moving your dog with the family is part of the relocation. By 'not wanting to know' the firm is not doing it's job. Yes, lazy agents are common, but that doesn't make it right. Make sure your employer knows that you are getting stonewalled by the relo firm, and get the company (assuming they hired the firm and are paying the bill) to light a fire under the relo agent's hind end. And if you don't get a change of attitude pronto - find someone else. This kind of thing makes me sooooo mad.

/rant.

---

I believe EF member AK_US moved to the Baselland area with listed dogs. Perhaps you could PM her to hear about her experience.

Wishing you and your pup all the very best.

Last edited by meloncollie; 26.06.2014 at 18:47.
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Old 26.06.2014, 18:29
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

These may get you started:

http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/...gepri/pet.html

http://www.blv.admin.ch/themen/04670...x.html?lang=en

I'm sure Meloncollie, our resident dog expert, will be along shortly with more detailed info.

You will have to do a mandatory SKN theory and practical course with your dog and may need others, it depends on the breed/mix and canton regs.

Ah, MC beat me to it.
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Old 26.06.2014, 19:14
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

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Just saw your comment about the relo company not wanting to help. Fire them. Seriously. Your company is paying big bucks to make this move happen; moving your dog with the family is part of the relocation. By 'not wanting to know' the firm is not doing it's job. Yes, lazy agents are common, but that doesn't make it right. Make sure your employer knows that you are getting stonewalled by the relo firm, and get the company (assuming they hired the firm and are paying the bill) to light a fire under the relo agent's hind end. And if you don't get a change of attitude pronto - find someone else. This kind of thing makes me sooooo mad.

/rant.

---

I believe EF member AK_US moved to the Baselland area with listed dogs. Perhaps you could PM her to hear about her experience.

Wishing you and your pup all the very best.
MC is right, you need a relo firm in your corner. Just because someone else is paying doesn't mean you need to accept their choice of agent. Unless you have not done so already, you need to write a very direct email to the relo firm making it crystal clear that you expect their support and see how they respond. Be sure it is in writing.

Not only should you expect help with the paperwork but also with the search for dog friendly housing.

I had the chance to meet a property specialist from Basel recently. She has pets and speaks English. She works with relocation agents.

MC is right. Member AK_US did move with dogs on the list. I was in contact with them (not as their agent).

I have clients who would never have moved here if I did not help them. I have had clients who chose to move here without their pets. They made that decision beforehand.

I could not move without my pets and this is not something that everyone understands, including some people in HR.

Good luck with this. I believe where there is a will you will find a way to make this happen.
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Old 26.06.2014, 20:08
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Thank you very much to Meloncollie, Medea Fleecestealer and Mrs Doolittle for you very helpful posts, and for taking so much trouble to provide links.

Perhaps I have been a little harsh on the Relocation company - it may have been, in typically English fashion, we have understated our concerns to them. In every other aspect they have been brilliant, so I think it may just be a communication problem (on our part). We will take your advice and be completely frank with them. The lady who has been helping us to find a dog-friendly house, and will be 'settling' us in with bank accounts etc has a dog - admittedly a small one- herself so we will ask her to help us, and accompany us, when we register with the community, with a vet and with the Veterinäramt.

I will also follow the links you've all given, clutching our German-English dictionary!

Thank you so much again. Out of interest what sort of dogs do you have?
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Old 26.06.2014, 20:40
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

Buffy, before choosing a house, going to register, or going any further in any direction, make sure that you have a positive response from BL Veterinämt. You want to make sure that you will be able to bring Popper here, first and foremost.

What if it turns out that Popper is denied a permit in Basel Land? Do you have a Plan B?

You would have to find housing in another canton, one where she would be allowed. (The neighboring cantons of SO and AG also require permits for Rottweilers.) Or you could commute from farther away. Or stay in the UK.

Be aware that it is difficult to get out of a housing contract after you have signed, so make sure that Popper is allowed in the canton before going further.

Last edited by meloncollie; 27.06.2014 at 08:16.
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Old 26.06.2014, 21:19
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Re: Federal Dog Control Legislation

I second Meloncollie's advice. You need to make absolutely sure your dog will be welcome in the canton before you go any further. There was a case recently of a couple who lived in Canton Vaud with their two dogs and then moved to neighbouring Canton Valais. They didn't check whether both dogs were acceptable; one was not and had to be left in kennels while they tried to sort something out. I don't know what they finally decided to do.

Ask your relocation lady to double check that your dog will be welcome at any property. Get it written into the rental contract if you can.
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breed specific legislation, cantonal dog law, federal dog law




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