My wife and I don't have kids yet and know absolutely ZIP about dealing with little brats. I'm putting this in the family corner because I'm hoping someone with more experience can give me some advice.

Ever since we moved into our new apartment we (that is my wife and I plus some of our neighbors) have been having trouble with some kids from the neighborhood. Even before our apartments had been completed, they had caused trouble on the construction site (e.g. they drilled holes in the water pipes with their pocket knives, leading to major water damage in three apartments when the water was turned on for the first time...).

Since we moved in, we've been dealing with vandalism (spray paint on the garage doors), constant (several times a week) ringing at the door and running off, throwing stones against the building, leaving stones, wooden boards etc. in the drive-way, using our parking lot as a playground from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m., on Sundays until midnight.

The problem is: this is all caused by children from the neighborhood, all aged between about 5 and 10. Hard to believe, but it's true. It's a typical Swiss upper-middle-class neighborhood with both parents working and nobody supervising the kids throughout the day. On the weekends, the parents seem to want their quiet and just send the kids outside all day.

While some of the behavior might be considered normal for kids of that age, the fun stopped when one of our neighbors heard a noise in her apartment a couple of weeks ago and when she came out of her office to look what it was, she found one of the kids standing in her living room. The boy had come in through the door downstairs (which was obviously left open by one of our neighbors) and just checked out the apartment doors inside - when he found an open one, he entered and started looking around. When he was discovered, he ran off - we don't know who it was.

Once I caught a couple of kids that rang at our door and ran off. I followed them across the street and saw them running into a neighbor's house. I rang at the door and their mother answered. I politely asked her to let the kids know that it's not ok to constantly ring at our door. I expected an apology but instead she totally freaked on me, calling me an inconsiderate a*****e, told me I should talk directly to the kids because she's not willing to do so and basically slammed the door in my face. Later that night she actually came over to me again and shouted at me again - telling me what a lousy neighbor I am because I didn't first introduce myself to her when I came over etc.

Anyway - talking to their mother was a BAD idea. After that, the ring'n'dash incidents tripled and remain high to this date. Once in a while I catch some of them (last week I caught two little girls that couldn't have been older than 4 - both of them cried before I could even yell at them so I just let them go.

So, what would you guys do? I'm slowly getting fed up with the situation. Especially since the incident last week which essentially was a break-in. I was thinking about contacting the local kindergartens and the primary schools but I don't want to make an ass of myself.

peter

No kids myself, but if you want the kids to stop ringing the doorbell, don't give 'em anything they might find fun, eg running after them, losing your temper etc. If you know it's them just ignore it, they'll get bored

would certainly be justifiable .....

That's the tactics I have adopted in the last couple of weeks. So far not much has changed but it's too early to tell, I guess.

One thing's for sure, though - if I ever catch that kid standing in my living room, he'll be there until the police arrive.

Get out and play with the kids. Break a few things with them. Get to know each of them on a first name basis. When you have their attention, ask them not to do it anymore.

Good old fashioned smack round the back of the head should do the trick. Might land you in the nick, mind! That's the problem with today's society - it sucks. No respect and no one takes responsibility for anything. I've not really experienced it here but back in Nottingham it was dreadful.

Try hot-wiring the door bell, a few "volts" through their little bodies will do them good to think about doing it again.
Hate to say it but unless you're willing to escalate the situation there really isn't much a person can do with those little hooligans. We had a similar problem a few years back with young teenagers bombing our building with water balloons late in the evening. I was sure they were going to break a window one day from the sound it made on the glass. Fortunately the only damage was a couple of bent slats on the roll laden. This went on for about 2 years before mysteriously it stopped (puberty must have passed).

You don't mention whether you own the apartment or whether it is rented. If you own it, then you would be within your rights to contact the police and ask them to check out the area for signs of vandalism once in a while on their regular patrols.
If the apartment is rented, then you could contact the "Verwaltung" and ask them to stick a notice on the main front door or to send a circular letter to all tenants.
It's difficult, I know, and you have my full sympathies. A few years back we had a family living next door to us with 4 small children - I didn't so much mind them playing in our garden (the dog did though.....) and doing quite a bit of damage to the flower beds with their football, but when I found one of the boys peeing in our bathroom (summer, terrace door open and it was quicker than going back to his own toilet at home), I spoke to his mother about it. She was very apologetic and nice about the whole thing.

You could do the Swiss thing and write a letter requesting your neighbours to tells their kids not to do the things you've mentioned. It can be a general letter, written on behalf of everyone in your building. You should then pop this letter into all letterboxes in your immediate area.

Otherwise, I would suggest going straight to the police.

caveat: I also don't have children, but:

I think that this does need to be taken up at the school and police level! It seems quite clear that someone in authority needs to tell these children what's what! The school needs to have the police come over and show them what it's like in prison.

Given the reaction of the mother I would say this is an example of lously parenting. Kids that age should be in bed long before 22:00 never mind midnight on a Sunday! I personally would be mortified if a child of mine acted like that and I know for sure they would expect conequences if they did. I doubt you will have any joy with the parents, who don't care, or the kids you could try the letter as suggested by cremebrulee but I would certainly report it to the police if only so they have it on record if the situation escalated.

I agree. Involve the police for definite. These kids are going beyond the mischief level; this is constant harrassment with trespassing on private property, damage to property, etc. Little s*ds! The mother's reaction tells you that the parents won't be interested in telling their kids to behave so you need someone who will tell them and who won't do it nicely.

If you can get more of your neighbours to file the same complaint the police will be forced to take action.

Parents can, in my experience, be very unpredictable when approached with complaints about their offspring. Often defending their kids' actions however wrong they are - so this approach is not always productive.

Certainly in Switzerland the police don't seem to mind doing something about a call about unruly/noise kids, especially if they entering and damaging property. The police are financed locally and tend to have a good community spirit.

Be very wary of taking the law into your own hands and if you do, make sure it looks like an accident (a tumble down the stairs, a hose pipe for garden watering accidentally pointed in the wrong direction, etc).

It is little consolation that the kids will grow out of this stage, and even less when you consider what the next stage may be.

My technique with noisy kids playing football against our house wall is to ask them where they live. When they tell me, which they always seem to do, I ask them to go and make their noise/mess/whatever there, not here. This sometimes works, but it has been greeted with the innocence of children by them saying 'but Mum/Dad sent us down here because they can't stand the noise'

trust me. kids would never get bored on causing damage, either with /without drawing your attention. they just like to do what their parents ask them NOT to do.

I think you did the right thing -- check where the kid is living and approach the parents, except that you're so unlucky to run into a lousy mom. I bet there won't be hundreds out there but at most 10 or 15...what you could do is to take some trouble in really serious locating them, catch them and take them to their parents and give a polite warning. take them to police station when it happens next time. almost all kids including those not respecting parents would usually be afraid of police especially when they know you know their addresses. This is a more long term solution.

I once almost got hit by a big snowball (10cm from my head) while i was pregnant. I spot the kids, went straight to their apartment, rang the door bell and told them that I was going to call police if they did it again and from then, I never get hit again

I have 2 children aged 4, and 7years old, and if they behaved that way i would be horrified, they would be grounded for months, until they understood how awful, and wrong there behavour was. The childs mother who shouted at you, and called you that disgusing name should have her mouth washed out with soap, do the kids also ring on her door bell.

I would take some photos, and try, and catch them on video, so you can have some evidence to show to the police, and the childrens parents.

Goodluck, and i hope you can soon sort out this nightmare of a situation.

I would exactly do what Sandgrounder says,and talk to the police as well, and yes if you get your neighbours to sign a list or so then this will make your complaint to the police much more serious.

Even if the offenders are below age of non accountabilty ( nicht stramündig) ,the police has to investigate once you put charges against the offenders, AND if they seriously damaged anything, THEIR parents are liable to pay the damages!

There is such as thing as a law text of 'nicht wahrnehmen der aufsichtspflicht',which is different from canton to canton.

Sounds to me like par for the (Swiss) course.

Same experience in this neck of the woods (8122 Binz).



Have alternately discussed with / threatened / talked to / yelled at the kids and the parents. Get the usual Swiss stare-like-a-cow in return.

Decided to give up and working on moving out (of CH).

Let us know when you find a country with no kids..

You either need to get a dog or a sprinkler.....