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  #21  
Old 28.08.2008, 13:03
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Re: Dog Bite

Peachy, I think we are basically all saying the same thing in a different way...it doesn't matter how good your dog is (or how predictable one might perceive it to be), as an owner you need to take the necessary precautions.
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  #22  
Old 28.08.2008, 13:18
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Re: Dog Bite

Just appeared this morning in the Tages-Anzeiger (in German I am afraid), the official statistics regarding dog bites in Switzerland in 2007. The amazing thing is that about half (48%) of the people who were bitten were bitten by a dog they knew and 15% by their own dogs. 25% of people who were bitten were under 20.

The report says that on average 1% of dogs will bite a person. However that likelihood is 10x higher for an American Pitbull, 5x for a Rottweiler and 3x for a Dobermann.

Here the link if you want to take a look:

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/tier..._JjKbNoKSn6A--
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  #23  
Old 18.09.2008, 08:54
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Re: Dog Bite

I'm sorry guys but I forgot to send you an update. I came home from Malta and reported to the police station promptly. I gave them my passport and the dog's papers and that was that. They didn't even ask me any questions. The police did say that the guy went and got rabies shots - why? I don't know. But in any case, I told them to tell him to send me his medical bills.

The dog has a muzzle on at all times now when I'm walking her.
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Old 18.09.2008, 17:53
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Re: Dog Bite

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The police did say that the guy went and got rabies shots - why? I don't know.
Pretty much SOP if they were unable to ascertain whether the dog had up to date anti-rabies shots. If the person looking after your dog had all the paperwork and the shots were up to date a rabies shot for the person who was bitten should not have been necessary. My understanding is that a rabies shot is not a pleasant experience....

Glad that things seem to have been worked out in a fairly straightforward way though.
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Old 18.09.2008, 18:25
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Re: Dog Bite

Thanks Snoopy. All the dogs papers were here, they were just not able to communicate with my mother-in-law. Maybe they asked in Italian if the dog was vaccinated and she said, "no! no!". I really don't know. Poor guy though. Rabies shots are brutal. I certainly wouldn't have taken them. I mean, what are the chances of the dog not being vaccinated to start with and even if it isn't what are the chances of it having rabies? I know it's better to be safe than sorry but when I was bitten by an unvaccinated dog I totally refused any shots. But that's me!
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  #26  
Old 19.09.2008, 10:49
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Re: Dog Bite

There is a myth about the rabies vaccination. As a family we all had it prior to moving to Thailand. It hurt much less than the typhoid. That really was a stinker, in fact we had absolutely no discomfort at all.
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Old 19.09.2008, 10:51
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Re: Dog Bite

Glad to hear it!
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  #28  
Old 21.02.2015, 13:36
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Re: Dog Bite

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Just appeared this morning in the Tages-Anzeiger (in German I am afraid), the official statistics regarding dog bites in Switzerland in 2007. The amazing thing is that about half (48%) of the people who were bitten were bitten by a dog they knew and 15% by their own dogs. 25% of people who were bitten were under 20.

The report says that on average 1% of dogs will bite a person. However that likelihood is 10x higher for an American Pitbull, 5x for a Rottweiler and 3x for a Dobermann.

Here the link if you want to take a look:

http://www.bvet.admin.ch/themen/tier..._JjKbNoKSn6A--
Bumping an old thread/post...and I am not really sure why other than trying to rid myself of aftershock from yesterdays less-than-routine dogwalk.

This happened in Stockholm, not CH (back there on Monday) but could have happened anywhere I think: 4 dogs were playing - running around (no balls or toys that belonged to any dog in particular) - suddenly I saw my dog being attacked by the senior dog (7 yr old male Golden Retriever) and the owner of that dog tried to intervene. Maybe I did the wrong thing but my instinct was to try and get hold of my dog's collar (3yr old male Samoyed). As he is a rather lightweight boy I was able to swoop him up and step away - I did not see any injuries (red on white shows fairly quickly) and then together with the other dog's owner tried to figure out what went wrong. I think the older dog figured mine was the newcomer, even though he has played with that dog in the same place before. We parted ways...

On the way back to my flat I felt a pinching feeling near my armpit and figured I had gotten a little nip that would appear as bruised skin. Back home and in the light I took off my coat and jumper to discover I had a crater-shaped bite about 4cm across just between my upper arm and armpit. I checked Nansen again and aside from a tiny scratch near his eye he had no injuries.

Gut instinct told me I should go to A&E to have my wound properly looked after (Friday evening and A&E...meant for each other). Four hours (mostly waiting), 5 stitches, a tetanus jab and prescribed course of antibiotics later I walked back home...

I made a mistake by not getting the other dog owners info, but when it happened I did not think anything had happened that would require medical attention. Part of me regrets that and the other part of me feels that I reacted in a way that was natural for me, not eager to place blame or find fault. We were two owners each with our dogs and no guarantees accidents don't happen - however I will be rebooting my dog behaviour alertness filter and assumptions about different breeds.

Any statistics on how often a Golden Retriever does the biting?

#walkingthedog
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  #29  
Old 21.02.2015, 13:45
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Re: Dog Bite

Sorry to hear about your injury, I hope you soon recover.
I think you did what most people would do, it is instinctive to protect those you love, whether human or animal.

I once read that the dog least likely to bite is a golden retriever, (or labrador?) not sure how true that is. I suppose you maybe received a bite which was meant for your dog.

I hope you and your puppy soon get over your trauma.

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Statistics show golden retrievers and Labrador retrievers are the two breeds least likely to bite. Retrievers have been bred to retrieve water fowl, the animals are bred to have a “soft mouth” that does not damage the hunter’s birds. This “soft mouth” makes the dogs less likely to bite. In addition, both breeds have been described as friendly, sociable, and non-aggressive dogs that are not wary of strangers.
http://www.dogbreedsinfo.eu/dog-bree...-the-least.php

Last edited by hannah'sauntie; 21.02.2015 at 13:49. Reason: Added quote
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  #30  
Old 21.02.2015, 14:27
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Re: Dog Bite

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Sorry to hear about your injury, I hope you soon recover.
I think you did what most people would do, it is instinctive to protect those you love, whether human or animal.

I once read that the dog least likely to bite is a golden retriever, (or labrador?) not sure how true that is. I suppose you maybe received a bite which was meant for your dog.

I hope you and your puppy soon get over your trauma.



http://www.dogbreedsinfo.eu/dog-bree...-the-least.php
In the circumstances (not having taken litigious stance and taken owners info - I had nothing on me to write down and phone was home) more than once last evening I felt it was lucky that I got the bite. The A&E fee quite nominal, an after-hours visit to the vet woukd have been that times a factor of 4-5 and likely require aftercare.

It did remind me of how people can be put off dogs for life if they are bitten as a child, when fear rules over reason. I was nipped in my bum as a child by the neighbours German Shepherd and in my cheek by my great-aunt's Bassett - fortunately I only have physical scars, but have always felt such an emotional bond to animals that I almost can't live without at least one. If the dog had taken the same bite out of my cheek I might not be feeling quite as "fair" to the otherdog/owner.

It is odd the assumptions that are circulated about different breeds - one of the nurses who looked after me (Cocker Spaniel owner) said that despite the generalisation that Goldens are only very gentle dogs, they are known as one of the breeds most likely to bite..my belief is that despite the training, the instincts, the precautions we take, they are all animals and one should never trust them 100%...no more than I trust humans

Last edited by Tasebo; 21.02.2015 at 14:45.
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  #31  
Old 21.02.2015, 14:44
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Re: Dog Bite

I'm very sorry to hear that you were injured. Glad to hear you have had it attended to, this is nothing to mess with.

Yes, we all know that we are not supposed to get between two dogs, as we can easily become 'collateral damage' - but every dog owner in the world has done what you did, as our instinct is to protect our own pups.

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Any statistics on how often a Golden Retriever does the biting?

#walkingthedog
The bite statistics as collected here are actually meaningless as a predictor of behavior. Bite stats can only tell us what has happened. Strike that - they only tell us what has been reported, which is not the same thing at all. For example, many owners of small breeds will treat a bite themselves as there is less need, and not go to the the doctor (mandatory reporters in CH) and many people do not report to report bites within the family. So neither show up in the stats...

Stats 101- Correlation does not equal causation.

IIRC, because I can't find the BLV bite stats at the moment, goldies and labs are listed as breeds with a large-ish number of bites against them. Does that mean that the retriever breeds are more prone to biting than others?

No - what it likely means is that there are simply more retrievers than other breeds in Switzerland - they are among the most popular dogs here. The retrieving breeds are actually among the more placid phlegmatic dogs, hence their popularity. Higher numbers, more bites - nothing to do with tendency.

Another reason for the 'placid' retriever breeds might have high-ish bite stats is that many owners choose these breeds because they don't want to do a lot of training, depending on the dog's good nature instead.

Or it could be that people decide on the retriever breeds because they are known to be good with kids. And then don't instruct the children how to behave with the dog, relying again on the dog's good nature.

Less training, less control, less awareness of a potential trigger situation = bite. But it could well be postulated that it's the type of owner, not the breed.

Or it could be one of a thousand other variables.

Stats are often tabulated by breed - but that is making an awful big assumption as to a causal factor. Nothing says that breed is any more a driver than, say, eye color, or what the dog's owner was wearing at the time. Anyone who plays with stats for a living knows that we can make any random collection of data appear to say just about anything.

I stress this because the media have painted a false picture - few ever question why breed is pulled out of the mix of data and assumed to be a driver. But "Breed X Bites!" makes a good sound bite, sells newspapers, and fuels innate (and groundless) fears.

Any behaviorist (or owner) knows that what drives the chance of a bite are the immediate circumstances including environmental and resource triggers and perceived threats, the dog's training and socialization and in the case of a fight, both dogs' T &S, the owner(s) training and skill, the health of the dogs, etc. It's a very complicated situation, not easily given to simplistic statistical analysis.

But any dog can bite, given a set of specific circumstances.

/sermon.

---

Hope you (and Nansen) recover quickly.
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  #32  
Old 21.02.2015, 14:52
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Re: Dog Bite

My husband is *terrified* of dogs - which I found really strange, until he told me that he was attacked by dogs when he was a child, in the village going on errands. In those days many of the town households had dogs in their unfenced yards, and being chased by an annoyed dog was not unusual, just that he was bitten a couple times on the legs.


When we`re out walking and see dog walkers coming our way he gets all nervous, can`t keep his eyes off the dog, and the dog seems to sense his fear which makes everything worse. The dogs then seem to want to approach him, he freezes, dog gets nervous, he gets more nervous, etc etc.


Now I've taken to "training" husband! Out walking and seeing approaching dogs I instruct him to NOT look at the dog, to forget it`s there, and I keep up a chatter and distract him to look at something in nature - and before he knows it the dog has walked past and ignored him completely!
I get the sneaky feeling he`s feeling rather proud of himself to have mastered his fear.
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  #33  
Old 21.02.2015, 15:06
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Re: Dog Bite

Yikes Tasebo,

I'm sorry this happened to you, and that it didn't happen in CH. If it had, you might've had a chance of finding out who the dog owner was - or he might've had the decency to follow up with his details the next time you ran across him. Good thing you had the wound properly taken care of.
Take care!
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  #34  
Old 21.02.2015, 15:48
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Re: Dog Bite

Info in French, "be a leek" & "be a stone" postures.
http://www.fondation-barry.ch/sites/...i%20komm_f.pdf
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  #35  
Old 21.02.2015, 18:19
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Re: Dog Bite

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Yikes Tasebo,

I'm sorry this happened to you, and that it didn't happen in CH. If it had, you might've had a chance of finding out who the dog owner was - or he might've had the decency to follow up with his details the next time you ran across him. Good thing you had the wound properly taken care of.
Take care!
The ironic bit is that the dog's owner and I had a conversation after, but I had no idea what it looked like under 2 layers of winter clothing so was my brave brush-it-off type self. I am fairly certain at some point we will meet again and I will let him know how things went. If the dog had jumped a bit higher and sampled my face instead of my armpit it would have been VERY obvious and caused quite a commotion amongst everyone present (glad we missed that).

I have a bit of an issue with myself locally as there is at least one dog, if not more that are always outside loose when I walk/run by with Nansen. One of them did have a go at us last winter, but noone was outside and I am nearly certain that dog has not been through the official training,registration, etc. (There are advantages and disadvantages to living in the sticks depending on one's situation - a lot of the "official" stuff that causes people headaches in central ZH is a non-issue here - one outcome being untrained dogs/owners. I as a newcomer to the Gemeinde 3 yrs ago followed the rules) Nansen had a nip on his leg that I could see was not deep and I used the snow to wipe the area. I had a bite on my calf that did not break the skin.

If there had been real damage I would have to have been the "bad guy" and knock on their door and in my best Hochdeutsch explain that their dog had bitten us. The area where this dog lives is quite "tight" and we would have been the nasty non-locals. As a Samoyed owner it is hard enough to go unnoticed, I would be recognised by everyone as the woman who reported the dog. Rest assured I would definitely do this if I needed to take my dog to the vet.

Why do I write this? No reason other than it reflects my own disease and awareness (locally) of sticking out by speaking Hochdeutsch and not Swiss German. Both OH and I keep our eyes on full-alert for the Huebli hounds - they are a rough bunch
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  #36  
Old 21.02.2015, 18:43
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Re: Dog Bite

My sympathies, Tasebo.

That there is one law for those who are 'connected' and quite another for outsiders is one of the more difficult adjustments to village life. But that's the way it is 'round here. The most egregious scofflaws are usually the first to demand the book be thrown at everyone else - often for the very offenses they themselves commit with abandon.

As 'die verrückte Collie-Frau' I too stand out like a sore thumb and so must always watch my step. The price of being ever so slightly different I guess.

Do keep an eye on that wound in the next days - and again, hope you recover quickly.
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  #37  
Old 21.02.2015, 21:17
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Re: Dog Bite

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My sympathies, Tasebo.

That there is one law for those who are 'connected' and quite another for outsiders is one of the more difficult adjustments to village life. But that's the way it is 'round here. The most egregious scofflaws are usually the first to demand the book be thrown at everyone else - often for the very offenses they themselves commit with abandon.

As 'die verrückte Collie-Frau' I too stand out like a sore thumb and so must always watch my step. The price of being ever so slightly different I guess.

Do keep an eye on that wound in the next days - and again, hope you recover quickly.
Wondering what my nickname is? Die verrückte Eisbär-Frau maybe...

We certainly have some colourful characters round these parts, and nicknames for the hounds. The positive thing is that for the most part we feel welcome, or even unnoticed, and at least on our street everything is very neighbourly, in the best sense of the word.
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Old 21.02.2015, 21:50
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Re: Dog Bite

I should think it the same anywhere though. People who control their creatures & others that don't (be they animal or human). Your conversation reminded me a dog jumped up at me a couple of weeks ago. It was almost as tall as me. Put it's paws on my coat & I was thinking "nevermind, I can wash it". Only afterwards I realised if the dog did the same to someone else, they would have been scared witless. I didn't budge as we had a big dog when I was younger. But really I should have said something to the owner who just smiled & walked off - even after the dog did the same thing a 2nd time.
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  #39  
Old 22.02.2015, 00:04
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Re: Dog Bite

It is only the newly arrived dogs that are obliged to attend the Swiss training classes, so it will be several years before we are safer.

My friend's dog attacked a cyclist in Bern on a pathway, it bit him on the ankle, he was bruised but no skin broken. She thinks he kicked the dog when it chased him.

The cyclist did not stop, so she had no personal details. He went to his doctor, and then automatically the police were informed.

She was looking at a charge of causing actual bodily harm, and luckily the dog breeders' club had Fr. 2 million of legal insurance. Her lawyer talked the cyclist into dropping the assault charges in exchange for covering his medical costs (Which she was going to pay anyway).

Lesson learned, be very careful when you allow your dog off the leash.
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Old 22.02.2015, 19:33
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Re: Dog Bite

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It is only the newly arrived dogs that are obliged to attend the Swiss training classes, so it will be several years before we are safer.
.
From my experience, those classes are not very helpful. What I know about dogs and their behaviour, I found on my own. Unless the owners want to do their research, I wouldn't count on classes helping improve the current situation.
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