I'm not sure that your dog will be better off in the cabin in a small container than in the cargo hold where it would be able to have a larger container. I assume you are flying Swiss as they are the only airline that fly direct between SA and Switzerland. You will not be able to let the dog out of the carrier. Also, on take off and landing the carrier will need to be placed in the closet, in the overhead locker or under a seat in economy.

Also, if your dog so much as squeaks, pees, poos or pukes I can hear the reaction of the other first class passengers now.... I am sure you don't care really, but it won't make the flight much of a pleasure for either of you.

Flying animals in the hold really isn't that traumatic. I have done it and the animals were fine. Airlines, and particularly Swiss, have pretty good safeguards to prevent the kind of incident you mentioned. I have not heard of Swiss losing an animal in this way. Anyway, it is a simple thing to get hold of a cabin crew member when you are on board and to mention you have a pet in the hold (a photo works wonders ) and ask them to check with the cockpit that they have been loaded. I know there are horror stories out there, but with good planning and using a reputable airline, it is generally a pretty stress free experience.

Just to demonstrate how our dogs reacted to the move. When we arrived in Switzerland we had the transport crates in our living room. All our dogs went back in to them to sleep. I am sure that they would not have done so had they been traumatized during the flight.

Thanks for the opinion Mrs Doolittle, glad youre not on the flight with me! Guess we will find our feet some other way in Baden!

Hi Snoopy,

Thanks for the reply and thank you for not being nasty about it like some other replies. I am very scared and nervous about this whole thing and doing it on my own makes it even worst.

I will definately consider your suggestions. Thanks.

I am not sure what the connection is between flying your dog here and finding your way around in Baden. What does this have to do with my relocation business? There is no reason to make a personal attack at my signature and my work just because you don't agree with my post.

My opinion was and still is that you are not doing your dog any favours by putting it in the cabin. Dogs need water during a long flight, water makes them pee. Given the weight limits, even a filled bottle of water could possibly push you over the limit including the weight of the bag. If your dog does do anything like pee, poo or puke, in such a small bag your dog will have to sit in its business. Not to mention what this will smell like in the cabin. You are not allowed to take your dog out of its carrier at all during the flight. I was just thinking not only about the well being and safety of your dog but being considerate of the other passengers. Since you have never flown long haul with your dog or have any experience moving dogs around the world you don't know what to expect.

There was nothing nasty about my post. Your reply, on the other hand was, and have reported your post to a moderator as personal attacks are not to be tolerated here.

Cybersiz

I am confused as to why Mrs Doolittles post upset you more than Snoopys? it seems to me that they both give you similar helpful advice and think the personal attack on Mrs Doolittle was unwarranted

Probably not the best way to introduce yourself to other posters on the EF.
Good-luck in Switzerland with that attitude.

Cybersuz,

I certainly understand your apprehension - I was absolutely panicked the first time my dogs flew. I know that traveling cargo sounds frightening at first ( I almost opted for divorce rather than put my baby through the first flight. ) but really - the flight isn't so bad. From my experience (I've flown my dogs around the world several times in the course of our moves) Mrs. D's advice is absolutely spot-on. And certainly well meant - from her many posts, it is clear that Mrs D is a true animal lover, and has lots of experience with pet travel - I respect her opinions, and value her advice.

The key thing you should think about is the length of the flight. Your dog will need to drink often to avoid dehydration during the flight. On a long haul flight, what about the need to urinate?

In the (climate controlled) cargo area in a properly outfitted travel crate, your dog can relieve him/herself if necessary. I fly my guys in larger crates - one end has a grate over a pad that absorbs any urine, If they need to urinate they can do so in that area, the rest of the crate stays dry and the dogs don't have to sit in their own urine the rest of the trip. This makes the trip far less stressful for them. Such a crate is far too large for the cabin; in a typical cabin sized crate, your dog will just have to deal with it.

My dog's travel crates are outfitted with drip-type drink bottles and a shallow dish to catch spillover - the water is frozen so that it gradually melts during the trip, giving the dog enough to drink without making a mess. As you cannot let your dog out of the crate in the cabin, keeping him/her hydrated is a bit of a fiddle.

The travel crates are large enough so that the dog can stand, turn around, and move about a little bit - also important on a long haul flight. Again, as you cannot let your dog out of the cabin crate, think about how your dog would cope in a smaller confined space.

In the large crates my dogs have their favorite toy (and can squeak away to their heart's content ) and a t-shirt which smells of me to comfort them.

The hold is dark, which helps the dog to settle and go to sleep. The cabin is lit, noisy; your dog can hear your voice but cannot be with you, which for many dogs is far more stressful.

Why not speak with a animal shipping professional for further opinions/information? IPATA is an umbrella organization of such professionals:

http://www.ipata.com/

Whichever route you choose, I'd suggest preparing your dog for travel by acclimating him/her to the crate - make sure that your dog learns that the crate is a safe, comfortable place to be, and learns to relax in there for a long period of time. Start with a few minutes, gradually build up time.

Hoping all goes well with your move.

The ship idea sounds interesting, but then how did the dogs travel from the port? It would be great if you could provide the details (costs, etc).
A fenced garden is great when you have a dog. Anything less makes keeping a dog here more difficult. It doesn't have to be a huge garden. We had one the size of a postage stamp in Japan, where it was impossible to grow grass, but we had these special tiles that didn't get too hot. We had a huge park nearby (a former racetrack) which was fantastic for dog walking and a fenced field for playing soccer with the dogs. But the climate here is much better for dogs and ours like underfloor heating.

FYI,

I looked into travel by ship a few years ago when my oldie was not healthy enough to fly. One thing that surprised me - this was on the Cunard line - is that the dog were required to stay in the on-board kennel the whole trip with only limited time allowed out of the kennel for a walk around a confined area. The dogs are not allowed in cabins or on other areas of the decks.

Perhaps other lines have different rules?

Cost (in 2004) was ca. 4-6000 (I can't remember if that was USD or CHF, can't seem to find my old quotes) for me and one largish dog. (I had planned to fly the others.) I can't remember what kind of cabin that got me... I was more concerned about my dog's accommodation.

Getting to the port of departure has to be figured out individually; we had planned to drive, you could take a train - but you could enlist a pet shipping company for help. All of which costs, naturally.

For my guys, several days confined to small kennels would be more traumatic than 12 hours flying.

Also, space in the kennels on Cunard is often booked far ahead. A colleague is currently considering this trip US to the UK, and found that there are no free bookings for a whole year!

(In the end, I decided the move was not possible for my old boy so the dogs and I stayed in CH, hubby moved to NY, and we did the commuter marriage routine seeing each other on weekends - for almost two years. The things we do for our mutts, eh? )

Hi all,

I did not mean to be rude to Mrs Doolittle, I have asked her for advice before about accomodationand using her services in Baden and I thought we had a good communication regarding that going via PM, I therefore felt her response re my dog in the cabin was a bit nasty, maybe I overeacted but I was looking for some support and maybe a bit of "do not worry it will be fine" instead I was made to feel like a selfish child for wanting to have my "child" close to me when I leave everything/everyone I have ever known behind.

I did do my homework before opting for the "pet in cabin" option - I made arrangements with Swiss air to be in a special seat away from any other passengers as this is their way of taking pets in the cabin, I also arranged to move her from her little bag to a much bigger bag after take off, this bag has exactly the same space as the crates that go in the hold(thats why I am flying first class for the extra space at my feet)so she will have absorbent pads at the one end as well for pee and as for her poop I will clean that like I do at home anyway. When its time to land she will go back in the smaller bag.

According to Swiss air, they can always put her in the gargo hold during the flight if she is making too much noise, but she is a very pampered pooch and as long as she is not alone she never makes noise.

I did not mean to offend anyone with my posts. This will be my last one on this forum.

Cybersuz, don't take these things too personally. It gets a bit rough and tumble here. Coming from SA you should be able to handle that, no?

But...one thing that HAS got me worried is what you wrote about being able to put your dog in the cargo hold if it gets too noisy. Who are you talking to that gave you this information? I can inform you, without the shadow of a doubt that this simply isn't true and isn't possible. There is no access to the cargo hold in flight. End of story.

Anyway, I hope you have a good flight and do not have to endure the wrath of your fellow passengers. If your pooch is well behaved it shouldn't be an issue. If it isn't, well prepare yourself for a very uncomfortable flight in a very uncomfortable atmosphere. Despite what anyone may have told you, although there is more leg room and space in first, you are still close enough to your neighbours for comfort.

Bon voyage!

in the movies they can access the cargo hold (like snakes on a plane . and b.t.w. dont watch that before you fly) . but i think in real life they cant ??

So Cybersuz...saw you were online yesterday. How did the trip go?
Hope you all arrived safe and sound. Would be interested to hear how the journey went.

Hi,

Yes finally here, landed on the 16th. The flight went brilliantly, Coco did not like the taking off and landing parts (like most kids I think) but other than that she was fine.

The Swiss Air hostesses were amazing! We were only 4 passangers in 1st class so after the other 3 went to sleep they allowed me to take her out of her bag and she slept with me in my bed till breakfast time!

They talked to her almost every time they went past, brought her mineral water and even some steak!

We are very happy to be here. Looking for permanent accomodation now, seems to be a bit tough finding a place with a small garden. Luckily we have Crown Relocations doing the searching for us, so far so good!

Sounds like you were really lucky, especially that they let Coco out of the basket.

As for Crown, keep an eye on them. A colleague at work used them and told me that they kept trying to show him what they had rather than what he wanted to see. Eventually he gave them a list of must-haves and told them not to waste his time showing him anything that didn't meet the "must have" criteria. He was looking in Baden and they were Zürich based and didn't really know the area that well. In the end he found that apartment that he moved into himself and Crown just helped with the paperwork. Hope you are luckier.

Sounds like Coco got "first class treatment". Glad the trip went well. I am sure you must be relieved.

Finding a place with a garden isn't easy. Garden apartments are often larger and rented to families. Often they don't want a pet because the garden is part of the area for everyone's use and it is maintained by the property manager and cannot be fenced. Not to mention how many apartments don't want dogs at all. (Pet urine can yellow the grass). Finding an apartment in Zürich is tough anyways, having a dog makes it even tougher. Good luck with the search.

Hi All

This is my first post here but from what I've seen I'm glad I found this forum. My wife and I are considering a move to Switzerland (Zurich in particular) next year.

The reasons our short list of possible destinations got down to Switzerland was that I could find a job where I can work in English (with the full intention of learning German while I'm there - aiming for Zurich at the moment), and mostly that I can bring my menagerie of pets with us without having to put them through quarantine.

I am particularly concerned about my 2 labradors - they will both be 3 years old next year so are already calming down a bit, and are indoor dogs of note - sleep in our bedroom etc. From what I've seen there is a good chance that renting an apartment (i.e. no garden) is the mostly likely outcome for us. Currently the dogs dont have too much space where we live (small garden) in Cape Town but I walk them every morning, and I hire someone to walk them during the day while we're at work.

Is this an approach that is generally followed by dog owners in switzerland? I know my dogs would be fine living in an apartment provided they got the necessary exercise. Are their services that will walk your dog while you are at work, and what does that kind of thing cost? I have found some places in Zurich that do "doggie day care" where they pick them up in the morning and return them when you're back from work. Is this kind of thing quite popular.

On a side note, is it (relatively) easy to find accommodation to rent that will allow dogs? My budget will be flexible when it comes to my pets, cos leaving them behind is not an option for us.

Peter,

As you are house hunting, don't limit yourself to Zürich city. It may be easier to find a flat with a garden, or a row house, semi or detached house outside the city.

The greater Zürich area is pretty small, and transportation is quite good.

When we first moved here the dogs were my main concern; we rented a house with a garden about 20 minutes by train from the ZH city main train station. It is sometimes easier to get into the city from the surrounding villages than to cross it - in fact, it took me less time to get into the city center than friends who lived across town. In addition to Zürich proper, keep an eye out for suitable properties in the towns on either side of the lake, or in the Winterthur area, or Aargau. In fact, any town along a direct train line is a pretty easy commute.

From my experiences here, I would suggest looking for a property with a private garden. You may find that communal life here brings far more restrictions than you are used to dealing with - having a bit of private space, where your dogs are free to be dogs, where you don't have to worry (so much ) about neighbors, is a godsend.

Yes, there are pet care services available here. The quality varies from abysmal to excellent. Vet anyone you consider using very carefully - just as you would back home.

Prices are also all over the ball park. You'd probably want to plan on at least CHF 25 per dog per hour for dog walking, although you'll often get a discount if the two dogs are walked together. For in-home all day care, CHF 100-200 per day, depending on services needed, is pretty common. For doggie day care where the carer has multiple dogs at the kennels CHF 25-50 per dog per day is fairly standard.

And do be aware that if you use a dog walker on a regular basis, the person you choose must have qualifications as specified under the Animal Protection Law. This is fairly new, not all dog carers are aware of this requirement.

Best of luck to you and your dogs.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Are you one of those Boeres running away from Affirmative Action(Black Economy Empowerment)?