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  #101  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:04
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

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Cape Town, South Africa ----> Waldorff, Germany (Rhein-Neckar-Kreis district).

Thanks,

Neil
Germany is a federal republic and therefore has a two layer legal system: federal and state.

Two Staff-mix killed a kid about a decade ago and sparked a huge debate ending in a federal ban on breeding or importing a handful of breeds including pitbulls and staffords. On top of that do states issue laws on personality test, owner requirements and so on for the existing dogs. You are considering to move to one of the states with the strongest legislation.

I do not think you will find a legal way to bring your dog with you to "the home of SAP"...
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  #102  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:08
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

Yep, so ive heard about the kid story. The thing is, that could have been a German Shepard (which I own as well), or any other strong dog - pretty short sited approach to a problem.


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Germany is a federal republic and therefore has a two layer legal system: federal and state.

Two Staff-mix killed a kid about a decade ago and sparked a huge debate ending in a federal ban on breeding or importing a handful of breeds including pitbulls and staffords. On top of that do states issue laws on personality test, owner requirements and so on for the existing dogs. You are considering to move to one of the states with the strongest legislation.

I do not think you will find a legal way to bring your dog with you to "the home of SAP"...
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  #103  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:09
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

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No worries, thanks for the effort. Pretty retarded laws on that side of the world.
You can say that again, you won't believe the hoops we had to jump through for our boy...

I will keep checking if there are any other options, but I fear as the Germans are usually quite sticky with rules, that it will be near impossible.
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  #104  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:11
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

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Yep, so ive heard about the kid story. The thing is, that could have been a German Shepard (which I own as well), or any other strong dog - pretty short sited approach to a problem.
That's BSL for you... Blame the owner not the breed! That's what I say.
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  #105  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:14
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

hello roostermike and all dog lovers (dangerous or not ) !

a couple of months later I just wanted to THANK you again, very very much for your support with my issue regarding the neighbours staffies - I'm not exaggerating if I say that you helped improve my quality of life here

your comments and concrete suggestions have helped me put the issue in a realistic context and be much less afraid, or at least think a lot less about it and feel in control.
if all dog owners were like you friendly bunch... but I realise that it was really worthwile to try and eliminate prejudice on my part as a "non-dog person", too!

so I wish you a lot of fun in the still nice weather with your four-legged companions
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  #106  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:17
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

wow, what awesome feedback. Nice to see some non staffie people see the joy in this breed - awesome stuff

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hello roostermike and all dog lovers (dangerous or not ) !

a couple of months later I just wanted to THANK you again, very very much for your support with my issue regarding the neighbours staffies - I'm not exaggerating if I say that you helped improve my quality of life here

your comments and concrete suggestions have helped me put the issue in a realistic context and be much less afraid, or at least think a lot less about it and feel in control.
if all dog owners were like you friendly bunch... but I realise that it was really worthwile to try and eliminate prejudice on my part as a "non-dog person", too!

so I wish you a lot of fun in the still nice weather with your four-legged companions
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  #107  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:20
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

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hello roostermike and all dog lovers (dangerous or not ) !

a couple of months later I just wanted to THANK you again, very very much for your support with my issue regarding the neighbours staffies - I'm not exaggerating if I say that you helped improve my quality of life here

your comments and concrete suggestions have helped me put the issue in a realistic context and be much less afraid, or at least think a lot less about it and feel in control.
if all dog owners were like you friendly bunch... but I realise that it was really worthwile to try and eliminate prejudice on my part as a "non-dog person", too!


so I wish you a lot of fun in the still nice weather with your four-legged companions
Glad we could be of help! Once you eliminate prejudice, you will have no problems with dogs in general.
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  #108  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:20
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

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Yep, so ive heard about the kid story. The thing is, that could have been a German Shepard (which I own as well), or any other strong dog - pretty short sited approach to a problem.
I fully agree in the sense that I have played with a pitbull that was the most patient and best behaving family dog I have ever met. But actually is it an effective law. The truth is that as least over here certain types of owners are atracted to certain types of breeds. And sorry to generalize but certain strong dogs seem to attract people who "had issues".
For me was the causal connection between the various cases always the anti social background and criminal records of the owners - let alone their obvious inability to educate and take care of a dog... and not the specific breed. (This is btw taken care of in the laws as well: If you have demonstrated to be an unreliable person, even only by driving drunk... are you not going to get a license for a dangerous dog - that's the breeds that are controlled but not outlawed)

On top of that is there little doubt that the strength of the animals did make the attacks worse. I'd still prefer to see the muzzles on those owners instead of their dogs.
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  #109  
Old 01.12.2011, 10:26
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

"I'd still prefer to see the muzzles on those owners instead of their dogs." - hehe I like that one.

For the record over here in South Africa where crime is very high, sometimes has an impact on the dog you choose - for instance I have a German Shepard (trained) where people who would like to invade your premises would rather go somewhere else. I also have a Staffordshire Terrier, which is probably the most useless watchdog in my mind, who would rather think that an intruder is coming around to play.




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I fully agree in the sense that I have played with a pitbull that was the most patient and best behaving family dog I have ever met. But actually is it an effective law. The truth is that as least over here certain types of owners are atracted to certain types of breeds. And sorry to generalize but certain strong dogs seem to attract people who "had issues".
For me was the causal connection between the various cases always the anti social background and criminal records of the owners - let alone their obvious inability to educate and take care of a dog... and not the specific breed. (This is btw taken care of in the laws as well: If you have demonstrated to be an unreliable person, even only by driving drunk... are you not going to get a license for a dangerous dog - that's the breeds that are controlled but not outlawed)

On top of that is there little doubt that the strength of the animals did make the attacks worse. I'd still prefer to see the muzzles on those owners instead of their dogs.
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  #110  
Old 13.07.2012, 11:47
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

Well, yet another dog has been subjected to absolutely horrible and inhumane treatment for an extended period (2 years), eventually resulting in him being "humanely put to sleep".

I'm sure most have heard the heart-breaking story of Lennox, the American Bulldog/Labrador mix, whose only crime was having the wrong appearance... Yes, he was confiscated and incarcerated for an extended period of time and eventually murdered.

Sometimes, I really have to wonder about humanity and our callous when we don't need something "throw away mentality". Dogs did not ask to be domesticated, we just did it, and now when it doesn't suit us or things get a little more difficult, we throw them away.
I'm not going to go into great details on the Lennox case. But a few points. By most reports, he was a loving member of a family for 5 years, with a young daughter who was disabled. He was confiscated (by non-canine experts) due to his resemblance to the Pit-bull type dogs (even though he was proven to be an American Bulldog/Labrador mix). The law in Northern Ireland allows for this... The family fought to try and get him released, involving multiple court cases, worldwide campaigns, multiple highly qualified dog behaviourists and countless celebrities (including a high ranking Northern Ireland politician). But to no avail, the dog was put down, with the family having no access during this whole time and now not even being given the body of the dog.

I really hope this at least gets people to sit up and take real notice. Hopefully people can finally figure out that this is nothing more than a form of racism, but in this case resulting in death.

So here is a little pic to think of the poor guy and hopefully his death leads to something good. BSL has no place in a civilised society.
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  #111  
Old 13.07.2012, 11:49
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

And here is the picture
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  #112  
Old 13.07.2012, 11:54
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

A tribute to the campaign, I am Lennox, from our dog Tyson.
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  #113  
Old 13.07.2012, 12:36
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

I hope the people responsible for the death of lennox are haunted by it. Though I don't have much faith that will happen.
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  #114  
Old 13.07.2012, 12:47
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

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I hope the people responsible for the death of lennox are haunted by it. Though I don't have much faith that will happen.
I just hope in this specific case, that a proper investigation occurs. In terms of the bigger picture, I really hope this increases awareness and shows that it is not only the negative reports that get into the news. BSL needs to go and the emphasis needs to be placed on the owners.
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  #115  
Old 13.07.2012, 14:54
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

A terrible, heart-wrenching story - and a senseless death.

This is exactly why every single dog owner needs to take a stand against the madness that is BSL.

Switzerland has some of the most draconian BSL legislation out there, Zürich leading the pack.

FYI, there are many threads on Dogpages running discussing the Lenox case. Most notably, statements by Sarah Fisher and Victoria Stillwell, both highly respected behaviorists, and Jim Crosby, another well respected behaviorist who also is bull breed expert - who all assessed Lenox and found him not to be aggressive at all. Yet their testimony was ignored.

There has been much discussion of the bias of the BCC, and concern over the credentials of the person who claimed that Lenox was aggressive - and over the BCCs ignoring the assessments of leading experts in the field.

A couple of those threads:

http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/in...owtopic=259033
http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/in...owtopic=259045


A very sad case all around. And I'll say it again: a completely senseless death.

Please fellow dog owners: we are all affected by BSL, no matter what breeds we own. We need to campaign against this wrong-headed, scientifically unfounded insanity.


Deed, not breed.

Last edited by meloncollie; 13.07.2012 at 15:14.
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  #116  
Old 15.07.2012, 01:52
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

FYI, the ITalk radio interview with Sarah Fisher and Victoria Stillwell - and Peter Tallack, the man whose testimony condemned Lennox.

(Interesting that Tallack would not answer questions as to what his qualifications and experience in behavioral science were....)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=8dCrHbQMhj4#
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  #117  
Old 15.07.2012, 12:05
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So here's my question, what can we do about BSL? How do we effect change? I'd like to do something, I don't know what. For me, living outside ZRH is really not an option. But BSL is wrong, total BS, and the result of ignorance.
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  #118  
Old 15.07.2012, 14:59
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

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So here's my question, what can we do about BSL? How do we effect change?
This is where I feel so helpless.

In ZH, BSL was voted in via a popular referendum. Purely knee-jerk reaction, fueled by the media hysteria. This is the downside of direct democracy - bad laws can easily be enacted when emotions run high.

Without a vote, there is little we Auslanders can do directly.

But we can help educate, do what we can to change hearts and minds whenever an opportunity arises. We can give financial and practical support to animal welfare groups working on behalf of the dogs (sadly, some of the big names remain oddly silent on the issue). Most importantly - we can lead by example by ensuring that our dogs are good canine citizens at all times.

BSL came about because of the tensions between those who like and those who dislike dogs. The banned breeds became scapegoats for a whole host of (largely unrelated) fears, because it was easier to target the animal than to tackle that small segment of Swiss society who are irresponsible owners. BSL is an easy measure that opportunistic politicians could get behind so as to be seen 'doing something'.

We dog owners need to address those tensions. No matter what breed we own, we need to remember that in every encounter we are defacto ambassadors for canine kind - we need to ensure that our dogs behave politely, and that we owners are respectful of others at all times.

If we can change the impression that much of Swiss society has of dogs in general, then perhaps our poor bull breeds and molossers might have a chance.

---

On a personal level, beyond supporting campaigns in other countries against BSL (as there seems to be little organized campaigning in CH) I sponsor a couple of the dogs here who have been made unhomeable by the legislation here - these poor souls will live their lives out in kennels/Gnadenhof, but at least hopefully with a little more comfort.

---
(And on a more personal level - found a fantastic house in Glarus just as the canton voted in restrictions on owners of more than one dog. When I turned it down, I made sure that the agent and owner (a local politician) knew that the sole reason I declined to buy this difficult-to-sell house was the new GL law. Any opportunity to point out the effect of such legislation is worth taking.)

ETA:

A site that might be of interest:

http://www.lexcanis.ch/

Last edited by meloncollie; 15.07.2012 at 15:40.
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  #119  
Old 19.07.2012, 16:36
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

Talk about prejudices and mis-perceptions...

I found this article very interesting.

http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/bas...id1967550.html

Basics are: A Dogo Argentino boards a bus (on his own), as it is nice and cool (I assume air conditioned). Doesn't do anything to anyone, very placid and eventually is returned to owner (by police), as the dog obviously wondered off.

I found the little undertones quite interesting. As examples, initially the dog was suspected to be a "Pitbull" or of this "type"... I.e. police are called, everyone is nervous and approaches with the usual "ooh this is a fighting dog, must be dangerous". Then, they find out, oh, he is a Dogo Argentino, i.e. not part of the "dangerous-fighting dog , etc. lala group", then false alarm and all is good.

Now, I love Dogo's, they are also amazing dogs, very placid and lovely to be around. But, anyone who knows dog breeds also knows that they have English Bulldog and Bull Terrier in them (so at least one which is singled out in BSL), but they are in the Mastiff family. My point is not that there is anything negative about Dogo's, but rather that as he is not part of the "bad group", he is automatically one of the good ones.

This is exactly the problem with BSL, and why the emphasis should be placed on the owner. A Dogo or in fact many other dogs, IN THE WRONG HANDS, can be dangerous. The breed is not the danger, the owner is...
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  #120  
Old 19.07.2012, 17:30
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Re: Calling all Staffie lovers!! (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) (Other dogs also welcom

And a nice press release from the Belfast Dog Show Society.


http://belfastdogshowsociety.org/?p=1019
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