Hi everyone,

I'm moving to a little studio soon and would like to take my two birds (conures) with me. In German, they are considered as Grosssittiche (I think!). In the rental contract, it says that Kleintiere (wie Hamster, Kanarienvögel, Zierfische) are allowed without permission, while grösseren Haustieren (wie Katzen, Hunde, Hasen, Papageien, Reptilien) requires written permission of the landlord.

Well, conures are not as small as canaries, but neither are they as large as the large parrots (though scientifically they are the same family as they have the same type of feet!).

I had the same rule in my current apartment contract, and I did write the landlord to explain that I wanted to get Grosssittiche (this was before I bought them!). He said ok. However, the new landlord might be fussier and I'm worried about asking before I move there as he might change his mind about giving the place to me, or say no to the birds, which would be awful!!!

I know bird owning is rare around here but I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar experience? Does anyone know if "Grosssittiche" can be considered as small animals? (They are 25cm including tail, probably 15cm without tail ).

Thanks for any advice!

You are right - conures are no African Greys but they are not as small as canaries / hamsters and goldfish under the Kleintiere cateogry either. You're best asking the landlord for written permission.

Which stage of the application process are you? Filled in the application form? If so, you would have had to declare if you have 2 birds anyway.

If you've received a verbal commitment from the landlord / agency, I would assume that they would be aware that you have a pet and awarded you the apartment anyway. Just give them a call and ask them to include a specific term in the contract about your birds.

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In most cases the landlord is worried about noise. A conure is a small parrot. This is not the same as a canaries, budgies or cockatiels. We have a parrot, a cockatoo, and she is slightly larger than your conures. She talks, sings, whistles and screeches. However, all of this is during the day. She is asleep by the time it is dark and she sleeps for about 14 hours. Are your birds noisy? Some conures are known to be. This would be the landlord's concern.

Keeping larger birds has become more difficult due to the strict housing requirements for their aviaries. For small parrots, the recommended cage size is minimum 2 x wing span per bird. Can make things a bit tight in a small studio.

I recommend you ask permission. There is really no way around this. Parrot owners are generally not welcome in apartments. If your parrots are young and have not reached maturity, they may get noisier.

I haven't mentioned pets yet because the landlord had no official application form (the current tenant selected me and forwarded my details to him). he sent me the rental contract to sign along with the house rules a few days ago so now i'm debating whether to tell him before or after i sign! (i probably only move the birds in later and not on the day that i move). there is no agency involved, he looks after the rentals himself.

My conures are pretty small (they are Pyhurras and not Aratingas) and are meant to be quieter than the Aratingas. But, they can still be noisy when they make their morning calls, probably able to be heard by the next door neighbour. They are about the same size as cockatiels.. without their tails, i would say they're only 15-18cm! With tail, about 25cm. One is already almost 2 years old, the other is younger (6 months). They may get noisier if I accidentally reinforce their screaming, but at the moment they are not bad at all.

But you're both right, I should tell him sooner rather than later! Especially if you think they are not Kleintiere (I was just hoping someone might tell me that they count as Kleintiere).

Mrs. Doolittle, have you ever had complaints about your cockatoo? Do let me know some sound proofing tips if you have any

Ps: I have a cage 1m x 0.75m x 1.5m high so it's large enough for them but yes, pretty tight for a studio! I'll have to sacrifice a sofa!

On the rental contract there should be a reference to pets. The keeping of pets is not covered in the house rules, which cover things like noise,for example. You need permission to keep these birds.

They are young...just wait until they reach maturity. It gets louder.

They are absolutely not to be compared to small birds, hamsters and the like.

We rented houses in the past and we had no problems. We own our house and our cockatoo is in a 32m2 centrally playroom downstairs with daylight. The ceiling is Pavaroc (acoustic tiles) unlike the rest of the house which has concrete ceilings and there is a big difference. We consulted many experts before we renovated the room. If you don't own, there is really very little you can do to the dwelling to help with this kind of noise level. In my opinion, parrots and apartments don't work. It's not fair to your neighbours and trust me, they will complain. This is one battle you will have little chance of winning.

I would say that would be very tight in a studio. Sounds like you could be making a mistake. Is there a reason why you cannot stay where you are currently living?

What do you mean "if you get to keep them this time"? Does the soon to be ex want them?
Wherever you do go, I hope you have the paperwork for your birds as I think they are on the CITES list. (Appendix II). They won't be going anywhere without the appropriate paperwork.

We have a great space indoors but we would like to build an aviary outside, something like this.

That's a gorgeous outdoor aviary, would love something like that too! I think that would make your cockatoo really happy

"If I get to keep them this time" -- i guess both issues: who gets custody of them but also whether the landlord says yes.

I have all their paperwork as they were actually imported from Germany by the breeder. But thanks for the reminder! I'll make sure they paperwork is safe and sound, and if I ever move I'll look into it early enough.

Wish me luck!

Parrots are not a pet for children. According to your earlier post, your soon to be exboyfriend has a child.
http://www.englishforum.ch/514522-post8.html

I hope your parrots don't end up like the hundreds of parrots needing homes.
http://www.20min.ch/news/stgallen/story/20685083

There are too many parrots to be rehomed at the moment. Breeders will sell to anyone who wants to pay. They don't ask questions. All too often the decision to buy parrots was an impulsive one and not well thought through. Apartments and parrots don't mix. Perhaps you should consider rehoming your birds where they will have the best possible environment.

actually i spent about 5 months deciding and then preparing my home for the birds. i did lots of research for the best type of parrot for an apartment, and went for green cheeked conures which are pretty small (only slightly bigger than budgies really). we did not get the birds for the child, but thought they would not mind him as my boyfriend had his parrot (half-moon conure) at age 7 and it bonded to him after a while. since we legally have to have two birds kept together in switzerland, it is much harder to get them to bond to us. but at least they have each other's company during the day and can preen each other. i wouldn't keep them separately at all.

i have no intention to rehome my birds as, as you said, there are plenty others that need homes. if this apartment landlord won't let me keep them, then i'll just have to keep looking for an apartment that will, even if it is a little outside zurich.

my birds are allowed out in my living room every evening. in my new place, i intend to put more perches around so that they have more landing and play spots. i usually put them to bed after feeding them in the evenings, 8 or 9pm, by covering their cage with a black duvet sheet. all you hear is their soft chattering. so i definitely won't be breaking any no-noise-after-10-pm rule.

you could always argue that birds should never be kept indoors anyway, which would apply for all birds, from canaries to cockatoos. and space is really relative to the size of the birds.

at the moment my only concern is getting permission from the landlord. and i will be implementing soud proofing strategies as soon as possible.

Here are some photos of the birds! Are they good for "interview shots" for the landlord?

ps: i actually have really small hands, i wear XS snowboarding gloves!

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From the pics the birds look small. They are very cute. I'd show the picture where you can't see just how big the cage is. Small birds are generally allowed. Just don't call them parrots, use the German name.

Good luck and do keep us posted.

Thanks Mrs. Doolittle, they really are sweethearts! And they're really not big at all, hence why I never really referred to them as parrots in this post (although I may have in my older posts!). These are the smallest species of conures around : ) They can be shrill, but right now they're being really good and only ever make their morning calls for all about 3 seconds at 10 in the morning.

Good point with the cage, I'll just show the photos of them relative to my hands, and without the entire long tail!

Will let you know what happens....

I would put them on the horizontal perch, and try and get a picture like that. It's okay if you have your hand in the photo, but just not put the birds in your hand or the landlord will think they are not caged and you don't want him to think that.

That's even less time than a teenager's alarm clock might ring before they wake up and hear it.

Thanks for the advice They are not so comfortable with my hand yet, and won't come over unless I am holding a piece of apple very still for 5 minutes. I thought of having something in the photo that sorta gives you a feel of size (like a hand, or a piece of fruit).... If not, they might still come across as biggish, like these photos. I'll try getting a photo with the horizontal perch!

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The first picture is fine. They don't look that big and neither does the cage at least not to me. But as you can see, I may not be the most objective person to ask.

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The first picture of the second batch of photos? But the cage is open!! LOL. Thanks for the feedback... I feel better hearing that they look small haha.

Yes, that's the one. To me it looks like you opened the door to get the picture. Otherwise the cage bars would block the view of the birds.

Don't worry. It's just a photo, no sound..

And also the second picture of the first post

They look tiny!

Mrs Doolittle, your cockatoo Tsuki is gorgeous!!!!! Such beautiful white feathers. Is she tame? (I'm assuming it's a she, Tsuki sounds feminine and sweet )

And i like the peanut treat holder - that'll keep her busy! I've been meaning to make little foraging treat things to hang in the cage but have not gotten round to it.