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  #41  
Old 20.10.2014, 16:18
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Re: Dogs in Cars

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If there would be no law there would be no fine. Nulla poena sine lege.
So what is the actual verdict by the judge/prosecutor? Violation of Art. 30 or 31 SVG or a violation of Art. 28 TSchG ? And how did justfy it, once again what is the exact wording of verdict?


Sachverhalt:


Nicht betriebssichere Fahrzeuge


Der Beschuldigte hat ein Fahrzeug geführt, von dem er wusste oder bei pflichtgemässer Aufmerksamkeit wissen konnte, dass es den Vorschriften nicht entsprach (apparently this is just template text according to the Staatsanwaltschaft)


Beanstandung:


Der Beschuldigte führte im Fussraum des Beifahrersitzes einen Hund ungesichert mit.


Dieses Verhalten ist strafbar gemäss:


Art- 30/2 SVG, Art. 57/1 VRV, Art. 93 Abs. 2 lit. a SVG


Fees = 200.- Fine, + Staatsgebühr 200.- + Kanzleigebühr 70.-
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  #42  
Old 20.10.2014, 16:31
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Re: Dogs in Cars

Thanks for the complete verdict.

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I've contacted the Staatsanwltschaft. They have confirmed that the fine is because they believe the dog was in danger (nothing to do with the driver being at risk). They agree that the dog could not cause an accident because she was being restrained by my wife. They were concerned that if I breaked hard it could endanger the dog.
Their explanation does not match with the cited law in the verdict.
None does mention that you have to secure a load/cargo in such a way that it [the cargo] does not get damaged.

Do you still have time to object?

Art. 30 Abs. 2 SVG,
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2 Fahrzeuge dürfen nicht überladen werden. Die Ladung ist so anzubringen, dass sie niemanden gefährdet oder belästigt und nicht herunterfallen kann. Überhängende Ladungen sind bei Tag und Nacht auffällig zu kennzeichnen.
Art. 57 Abs 1 VRV
Quote:
1 Der Führer hat sich zu vergewissern, dass Fahrzeug und Ladung in vorschriftsgemässem Zustand sind und das erforderliche Zubehör, wie das Pannensignal, vorhanden ist. Namentlich nach Reparaturen und Waschen des Fahrzeugs muss er die Bremsen prüfen
Art. 93 Abs. 2 lit. a SVG
Quote:
2 Mit Busse wird bestraft, wer:
a. ein Fahrzeug führt, von dem er weiss oder bei pflichtgemässer Aufmerksamkeit wissen kann, dass es den Vorschriften nicht entspricht;
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  #43  
Old 20.10.2014, 16:38
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Re: Dogs in Cars

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Thanks for the complete verdict.


Do you still have time to object?


Yes. I only signed for the letter on Saturday. So I still have 8 days. However, they have told me that if I object, I stand to have to pay at least around another 500.- extra (if I am not successful)! Having no knowledge of the legal System here and whether I would have any chance of winning (particularly if it comes down to the discretion of the Police) I don't know if I should risk it!
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  #44  
Old 20.10.2014, 16:40
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Re: Dogs in Cars

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Yes. I only signed for the letter on Saturday. So I still have 8 days. However, they have told me that if I object, I stand to have to pay at least around another 500.- extra (if I am not successful)! Having no knowledge of the legal System here and whether I would have any chance of winning (particularly if it comes down to the discretion of the Police) I don't know if I should risk it!
That is what lawyers are for. No idea how much a quick check would cost - but if you do want to challenge it - it might be worth getting a lawyer to do it.
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  #45  
Old 20.10.2014, 16:55
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Re: Dogs in Cars

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That is what lawyers are for. No idea how much a quick check would cost - but if you do want to challenge it - it might be worth getting a lawyer to do it.
best shot is most likely to contact the one I previously linked to.

PS: First question you should ask a lawyer: How much it will cost to get an answer.
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  #46  
Old 20.10.2014, 17:24
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Re: Dogs in Cars

I've contacted that lawyer. He also thinks that the fine is unjustified. He also told me that there is a chance that I might get a warning on my driver's license from the Strassvekehrsamt. I've tried calling them, but they are closed from 16:15! So I will have to find out tomorrow.
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  #47  
Old 20.10.2014, 17:32
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Re: Dogs in Cars

A warning is always a possible outcome if you where fined for something that could not be handled with a simple fine.
Art. 16a SVG
http://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifie...ndex.html#a16a

You have to ask them if they will apply: Artikel 16a Absatz 4 Strassenverkehrsgesetz.

PS: Just a question. How long ago was the police stop? It has no legal importance. It is just to know how speedy the court is.
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  #48  
Old 20.10.2014, 17:50
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Re: Dogs in Cars

1st June!
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  #49  
Old 20.10.2014, 18:16
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Re: Dogs in Cars

Also just for interest, where was the control? Kanton, nearest town. Thanks.
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Old 20.10.2014, 18:25
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Re: Dogs in Cars

Aargau, on a tiny road through a forest near Bremgarten.
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  #51  
Old 20.10.2014, 19:22
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Re: Dogs in Cars

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That is what lawyers are for. No idea how much a quick check would cost - but if you do want to challenge it - it might be worth getting a lawyer to do it.
This is one instance where it would pay to have legal insurance. We have this with TCS and the annual premium is chf 90.
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  #52  
Old 18.11.2014, 20:06
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Re: Dogs in Cars

So the latest news here is that i contacted the lawyer who wrote the artical about dogs in cars. He is ademant that i have broken no law. But even so, i would have 70-80% chance of winning the case if i contested the original decision.

I have also been back in touch with the court who made the orginal decision to fine me 200.- plus 270.- expences to ask them to clarify exactly what i was being charged with. The law they were claiming i had broken had no clear relation to what had happened. They told me that having a dog in the car "unsecured", regardless of whether my wife was keeping control of her by her feet, meant that i had broken the law with regard to ensuring a vehicle is safely loaded. According to the lawyer i contacted, this is complete rubbish and they have no grounds to fine me for this.

i must now decide whether to contest this further or just pay up. Whilst i think i have a good chance of having the decision for the fine overturned, i am not sure whether i will be able to claim back the expences for the lawyer, court fees, my time that i would have to take off work and the original administration fees. Does anyone with knowledge of swiss court proceedings know what costs i could likley claim back if i am successfull and whether this would be concluded at the same hearing (or would i have to follow on another case to claim back my costs following any successfull ruling)?
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  #53  
Old 21.10.2015, 17:56
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Re: Dogs in Cars

Some stupid people did a P&O crossing with the car in the heat of Summer from the UK - didn't leave water for the dog and left the windows closed - and the poor dog...

of course DIED ...

now they want to sue P&O for this! how is this P&O's fault!
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  #54  
Old 21.10.2015, 19:53
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Re: Dogs in Cars

I agree it's not P&O's fault, but according to Daily Mail from last year the car windows were left open.

'The pets were declared, the car was parked accordingly and in the appropriate place on the car deck with the windows open for ventilation and the ship’s ventilation was correctly set.

'However, upon arrival in Dover one of the three dogs had died and could not be revived despite CPR and oxygen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-day-year.html

As it was a pug they really should have reconsidered using a ferry for the crossing. They have breathing problems at the best of times.

Can't find anything about P&O being used over this though. Where did you read/hear this Odile? Or is a different story to this one?
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  #55  
Old 24.10.2015, 20:25
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Re: Dogs in Cars

it was featured on a BBC programme this week- P&O not being sued, but was blamed by the programme by Angela Rippon.

We always use the Tunnel when we have pets - but many people choose the ferry as it is cheaper. Can't bear to think the panic for the dog/s in case of heavy storm or heat, as in this case.
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  #56  
Old 24.10.2015, 22:38
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Re: Dogs in Cars

i don't understand, we used a lot of ferries and the car was usually left in the parking area while the dog/dogs came upstairs with us.
In england you have to leave the dogs in the cars? just seems weird.
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Old 24.10.2015, 22:48
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Re: Dogs in Cars

Yes, they are not allowed on deck. If the dogs are used and happy to stay in the car, the Dover-Calais crossing is not bad and only 1.30 hours. But even so, we would never take the chance with the dogs, as we have experienced awful stormy crossings over out 45 years of crossings- the thought of the dog/s left in the car with the holding chains creaking and clanging, and the boat rocking, etc- just is unbearable- and of course, extreme heat in Summer. Blaming the ferry company is just not fair.

BTW, again, we saw 2 people being refused entry at the Tunnel terminal Pet Passport service- 1 f'ing and blowing- as they had not got the dog wormed and checked by a vet over 24 hrs from crossing- saying they regulalry worm the dog so what the f*** is the problem, etc. And another couple trying to get the passport check done th day before, as they had an early crossing the next day- and being argumentative as they were told to come back the next day, as the dog has to be checked just before the crossing! They are VERY strict- so don't chance it.

Last edited by Odile; 25.10.2015 at 00:39.
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Old 24.10.2015, 22:51
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Re: Dogs in Cars

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Some stupid people did a P&O crossing with the car in the heat of Summer from the UK - didn't leave water for the dog and left the windows closed - and the poor dog...

of course DIED ...

now they want to sue P&O for this! how is this P&O's fault!
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it was featured on a BBC programme this week- P&O not being sued,
So are they sueing P&O or not? You seem to be contradicting yourself here
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  #59  
Old 24.10.2015, 22:59
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Re: Dogs in Cars

Apparently decided not to sue, after getting advice, but complaining bitterly about P&O.
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