I am on for this Sunday, come rain or come shine

will come shine according to the meteo swiss

Sunday

13°/26°

I see many of you only do or are interested on climbing rides

I like the speed rides too, that is go on more or less flat paths pushing your speed up, are there none of you that like the rolling fast and time trialing ?

If so we could also do that one of this days, set an average speed target and maybe a minimum speed and keep it over it.

I have been pulled along by Dr. D at 55 kmph on the flat....that was pretty good fun..

Since climbing builds up quite a lot of leg power, I think the good climbers in the group will also be the ones that will be able to pull the train along at high speed.

All the best climbers on the Thursday ride are the ones who manage to set the best pace when it comes to leading us through the flat sections too.

Even pro time trialists go into the hills to get build up leg strength and improve power.

There are some exceptions probably but generally you need power on the climbs as much as on the flats....Most people enjoy a good ride...hills or no hills but not in high traffic areas.....anyway, the Oerlikon ride should be fun (and if you have a future one I will try to make it), but I know I won't be up for it after my Saturday ride.

Its largely true... The difference between a climber is not as big as one thinks.

A time trialist because they work mainly on the flat is concerned with absolute oxygen uptake and absolute power output.... A good timetrialist might put out 400-500W over a one hour time trial... Pro tour riders maybe a little more.

Climbers are concerned with Oxygen uptake per kg body weight and Power to Weight ratio. They may have close to the same ability in terms of power a a time trialist, but are much lighter. Therefore it is easier for them to get up the hill.

Our tour champion 7 times Mr L. Armstrong, could reportedly put out 450W at a heart rate below threshold.... Great for his timetrialing... but since he also was a bit of a weight weenie (granted not as light as some pure climbers) he he could get alot of this power to push him up the hills.... Hence he won the tour 7 times.... That and maybe the help from a few extra red blood cells (Maybe).

Building power is about two things... increasing strength and increasing endurance (speed endurance). Increasing strength is like weight training.....

Question: How do you weight train on a bike?


This is very simplified... the whole thing is a bit of a minefield.

Climb up Mountains with Alphorns on your back?

Anyway,

the thing is I like the speed, the whistling wind blowing on my face, the joy of overtake the cars on my way.

Climbing is all the good you could want, for your muscles and heart and whatever, but you still go slow.

And unlike Eire, I don't like the gravity helped speed, I like to create it myself.


My post was to search for other cyclists who enjoy speed that would like to come and take turns in front on a fast ride, not to find out which discipline is better.

Also is not the goal to see who is faster or climb higher, it is to get together with other similar level riders and have fun together.

I'll have my TT bike built soon the frame and groupset it is ready now, I am just waiting for the aero wheels to arrive, can't wait, will go on a ride with the ksyriums tonight.

Thats it.... I'm forgetting the Alphorn!!!

or taking the gondela to the top too often lately!

It is all good, have fun with your new bike....gravity is for sissies

Many riders large frame/ weight put them at a definite disadvantage while climbing steep gradients..where its all about the power/weight ratio.. generally larger riders have more power but they are much more heavier to nullify the power gains and hence get dropped...so climbing makes u feel every extra pound you have got in the body and probably thats the biggest motivation to stay in the healthy/fit weight range..as for me its all about staying active and fit.

Sissies eh.

See you at this on Sunday then!



Actually your right... maybe it is for sissies.... Woodsie is doing it!








Sorry Woodsie.

I'd be interested to see a decent route round Zurich way that could be regarded as flat other than along the 'coast'.

I'd be very cautious of doing a chain-gang ride involving someone on a TT bike as it can be pretty dangerous, especially if you're not used to riding one and don't have much experience of riding in a group. The Bikeattack would be a good chance to ride like a nutcase though. Just as long as you don't puncture...ha ha

I agree; aero-bars in particular are a no-go on group rides.

As for the hills, the ride I am proposing is flat for 8 miles, then hilly for about 5, then mostly flat the remainder. I think that will be a good compromise between those that like hills vs. those that like flat sections. I am a bit weary of traveling with a group on the flat bike paths trying to weave around roller bladers and such; maybe I will look up an alternate road-based route with bike lanes for the flats. There aren't many routes that are completely flat other than around the lakes! And I intend to take full advantage of the hills before I have to move back to Massachusetts where the hills are max 100m.

Patrickrd - don't think I'm being critical and shunning your ride: I would try and get out but I've got other things on on Sunday, but will just use this oppurtunity to give my 2 rappens-worth.
Full respect to anyone who goes to the effort of organising a ride- I just think that if a ride (not just this one) is to be a group ride at pace, then everyone should be competent at riding in a group/bunch. If not they should still be welcome, but willing to heed the advice of more experienced riders with regard to how to ride safely in a group. That way everyone can enjoy the ride in a safe manner.
Furthermore, riders of different abilities can ride together in a group at the same level of exhersion if the stronger riders do more turns at the front, and weaker/tired/older/shopping basket bikes/etc sit on at the back. This is a tried and tested system but the only way this works though is if everyone can ride safely in a group. Therefore I suggest that anyone who turns up for a road ride should be prepared to either share their knowledge and experience or take note from others.
On saying that, have a good ride!

Unfortunately I had an accident today.

Nothing big, I cut my right hand with a glass cup that got broken when I was washing it.

They give me 4 stitches and told me I can't play tennis in 2 weeks and should not bike in 1 week.

So I can't come this weekend

Hopefully it will continue and then I'd be there next Sunday

See you there

Some great points, Uncle A. It would be a good thing for us to go over these things at least briefly before every group ride, especially when there are new people to the group, and even if not - since we all could use the reminders every time on how to ride properly in a group. For the safety of all of us! Will add that to the weeknight rides too.

You guys have fun this Sunday - Sounds like a great ride!

I agree, totally, safety first, this is a good idea.

. Thanks, for organizing Patrick, weekends can be tough to get people together, especially in mid summer. Have a great ride and enjoy.

Thanks for the comments on safety; I decided to do a quick internet search to come up with some guidelines and helpful hints for cycling (and especially in a group).

First, review this website for a list of all the common ways potentially fatal bike accidents happen, and easy things you can do to greatly minimize your risk. I have been cycling for years, but even I found some situations I have not considered.
http://bicyclesafe.com/

Second, below are some very basic guidelines for group riding. I copied these out of the guidelines for a MS150 charity ride (http://bikenjb.nationalmssociety.org/site/DocServer/BikeSafetyBrochure.pdf?docID=25002)

1. Group cycling has its own form of communication. The presence of road hazards, directions, and need-to-know information is relayed through the pack of riders by gestures and words. Remember to pass all communication on to the next cyclist behind you in the group. Speak loudly and clearly.
2. The following are the most common terms you may hear in group-sponsored rides:
   1. On your Left: This means a rider is approaching your left side. Allow room to pass.
   2. Car back: This means a car is approaching from the rear. All riders make an effort to move to the right of the road in a single file until the car passes. In most states, the law requires cyclists to ride no more than two abreast. This ensures that traffic will not be impeded, and will make passing easier and safer for the cyclists.
   3. Gravel - Pothole - Sand - Tracks: Each of these messages is to alert the riders behind you of hazardous road conditions. The words are combined with the gesture of pointing to the hazard well in advance.
   4. Flat: This indicates that a rider has suffered a flat tire. Allow enough room for the rider to slow down and move to the right side of the road for repair. Offer assistance if needed.
   5. Slowing: The cyclist in front of you is slowing down. Use caution and prepare to stop. Many cyclists use the palm of their hand toward riders behind them to indicate slowing and stopping.
   6. Stopping: This indicates that a rider ahead is stopping. Do not forget to unclip from your pedals.
3. Your responsibility in a pack includes:
   1. Be aware of others around you.
   2. Communicate well in advance. Use gestures in combination with verbal commands.
   3. Ride with your head up. Look down the road; not at the person in front of you.
   4. Maintain control and speed of your bike, even going downhill.
   5. Know your limits. Crashes can occur when inexperienced riders do not have bike-handling skills to make quick decisions in a pack.
   6. Safety starts with you. Group mentality is not always safe. Expect to stop at all redlights and stop signs—it is the law! Each cyclist is responsible for verifying that the intersection is clear.
   7. Adjust your safety zone to fit the conditions of the road, weather and traffic.
   8. Always plan an escape route.
   9. Never overlap your wheels with another cyclist.
   10. Do not use aerobars in a pack.
   11. Be aware of how weather will affect your bike. Riding in wet conditions requires slower speeds and greater breaking distances.
   12. Be respectful of other riders. Help others when needed.
4. Bicycle Laws
   1. All states [similar laws in Switzerland] consider cyclists vehicle operators, and give them the same rights and duties as other drivers.
   2. Know and obey all traffic laws: The golden rule of bicycling in a group is Be Predictable!
   3. Stay right: Ride in the right portion of the rightmost lane in the direction you are traveling and leave at least four feet between your handlebars and parked cars or other hazards such as other cyclists. You may move left when passing slower vehicles or preparing for a left turn.
   4. Obey all traffic signs and signals: Avoid “following the leader” through traffic signs and signals; you are required to obey all traffic signs and signals, including stopping at red lights and stop signs.
   5. Look & signal before you move: Always scan behind you before changing lanes or making turns. A continuous arm signal is required prior to a turn or lane change (unless arm is needed to control the bike) and while stopped waiting to turn.
   6. Two at a time: Ride no more than two abreast and do not impede traffic. If a part of the road has been closed and dedicated to “bicycle travel only” you may ride more than two abreast.

Finally, I would like to add my own advise for riding in a group, especially in a paceline:

1. Ride as smoothly as possible. Any unpredictable motion (lateral movement, braking, standing up out of saddle) can cause the person behind you to crash. Riding smoothly means:
   1. Maintain a constant pedaling effort.
   2. Do not brake unless you have to for your own safety. If the group is braking, it helps to yell "braking" so those behind you have time to prepare.
   3. Lateral (sideways) movements should be deliberately slow and smooth. Never make a quick lateral movement as you may cross tires with the person behind you, or startle passing vehicles that may lead to collisions.
2. Maintain a single-file paceline. Although these are social rides, on busy roads riding next to someone side-by-side should be avoided. Save conversations for wide, non-busy roads or bike paths.
3. Drop back on the left. If you are leading a paceline and want to drop to the back, you should first look to your left to make sure there is not traffic approaching. Then, you should slowly adjust your position to the left such that the paceline can pass you on your right. You should signal to the person behind you that you are dropping back (such as flaring out your elbow), and then slowly reduce your speed. Rejoin the paceline at the back.
4. Leave enough space to the cyclist in front of you. This is based on your comfort level. New riders should leave at least a bicycle length or two between you and the rider in front of you.
5. Look down the road, not at the cyclist in front of you.
   
6. DO NOT DO ANYTHING SUDDENLY!
   

As for the Sunday ride, how does a late afternoon ride sound? (starting at 4pm). Again, I am flexible if people want to move it, but am updating the event time correspondingly so that people can make more firm plans.

Also, we will meet in the back-side of Bahnhof Oerlikon at the Recycling containers. This is the side of the station that faces away from Seebach -- if you see Burger King, McDonalds, Migros, or Coop, you are on the wrong side.

The route will be about 30-35 miles and include a couple moderate climbs in the first half. I am trying to work out a good route that is mainly flat and on safe roads for the return portion.