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  #41  
Old 01.06.2016, 00:18
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Leave them in their dream world. Doesn't worth the time to give them smart advices.
Yes they are trolling. Like I said this is a bro-science thread. Or maybe bru-science, given the scottish porridge contribution. Which is not a bad source of carbs for sure.
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  #42  
Old 01.06.2016, 01:20
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Yes they are trolling. Like I said this is a bro-science thread. Or maybe bru-science, given the scottish porridge contribution. Which is not a bad source of carbs for sure.
While I have no idea what 'bro science' is supposed to mean, nobody's trolling you, it's just that you two seem to be inhabiting a different universe, where the concept of a 'protein rich meal plan' being considered essential doesn't make people roll around laughing.

In the real world where most of us live we don't have meal plans, we just eat stuff, preferably a decent mix of stuff, and most of us here are looking at your posts wondering if, or how, you actually believe you're being helpful to the OP, who quite clearly stated that she wasn't interested in building muscle.
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  #43  
Old 01.06.2016, 01:50
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Yes they are trolling. Like I said this is a bro-science thread. Or maybe bru-science, given the scottish porridge contribution. Which is not a bad source of carbs for sure.
Yeah... and as you can see, he still can't get the point. :/
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  #44  
Old 01.06.2016, 01:53
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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While I have no idea what 'bro science' is supposed to mean, nobody's trolling you, it's just that you two seem to be inhabiting a different universe, where the concept of a 'protein rich meal plan' being considered essential doesn't make people roll around laughing.

In the real world where most of us live we don't have meal plans, we just eat stuff, preferably a decent mix of stuff, and most of us here are looking at your posts wondering if, or how, you actually believe you're being helpful to the OP, who quite clearly stated that she wasn't interested in building muscle.
It would take me all night to pick out the logic fallacies in your claptrap argumentation.

The OP clearly felt attracted to the promise of a "bikini" diet and exercise plan. Chances are the "world where most of us live" (myself included) that means a bit too much bodyfat and/or a bit too little muscle. It is I would contend helpful to the OP to explain that wanting a bikini body and not wanting to build or maintain muscle are in their own way as equally unhealthy as body building.
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  #45  
Old 01.06.2016, 02:01
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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It would take me all night to pick out the logic fallacies in your claptrap argumentation.
It's OK, no hurry, take as long as you need.
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  #46  
Old 01.06.2016, 09:32
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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.

The OP clearly felt attracted to the promise of a "bikini" diet and exercise plan. Chances are the "world where most of us live" (myself included) that means a bit too much bodyfat and/or a bit too little muscle.
So what you are spouting on about doesn't even work for yourself?
So you're hardly the expert are you?

Perhaps you ought to listen to what others are saying?
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  #47  
Old 01.06.2016, 13:19
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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While I have no idea what 'bro science' is supposed to mean, nobody's trolling you, it's just that you two seem to be inhabiting a different universe, where the concept of a 'protein rich meal plan' being considered essential doesn't make people roll around laughing.

In the real world where most of us live we don't have meal plans, we just eat stuff, preferably a decent mix of stuff, and most of us here are looking at your posts wondering if, or how, you actually believe you're being helpful to the OP, who quite clearly stated that she wasn't interested in building muscle.
Most women do need more lean muscle mass, however. How else are they going to lose any fat, if they have no metabolic rate to speak of? Never eat? Protein synthesis is very calorific-ally expensive, and that's where high intensity exercise is advantageous over 'cardio' approaches: it convinces the endocrine system to apportion excess calories to protein synthesis instead of fat synthesis. I think 99 % of the general public (and medical doctors) don't understand your liver is very good at making saturated fats from carbohydrates. Similarly inflammation response can be either T1 (infection fighting) or T2 (structural repair), which also has a major impact on body composition. I'm spiraling off onto tangents here but the reality is that a lot of the common knowledge regarding human metabolism is wrong. In my opinion it's the medical doctors and nutritionists who are holding onto this the strongest. 'Bro-science' is basically counter-culture, and generally actually closer to what I see as the ground truth.

Where women go wrong is they conflate 'thick limbs' with muscle, but in women that usually means high levels of interstitial muscular fat, rather than subcutaneous deposits (or both). Barrel-chested men are also often full of interstitial muscular fat.
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  #48  
Old 01.06.2016, 13:27
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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'Bro-science' is basically counter-culture, and generally actually closer to what I see as the ground truth.
Good post. I think we'd both distinguish between, not scientifically proven but field tested and reliable advice, which might also well go counter the dietary and exercise guidelines from "big brother", from "bro-science" which is mis-informed delusional advice and opinion.
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  #49  
Old 01.06.2016, 13:39
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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So what you are spouting on about doesn't even work for yourself?
So you're hardly the expert are you?

Perhaps you ought to listen to what others are saying?
It does work, extremely well, but requires a degree of focus, discipline and consistency, especially if it involves change and moving outside your comfort zone or ingrained habits. And you might find that that beach body isnt worth the sacrifices in terms of other stuff you enjoy. Im OK being plenty fit and strong, but also having a few kg spare, that I know exactly how to "fix" quickly and effectively if I had the drive to.

But thanks for the reminder why I mostly just occassionally scan this forum these days and avoid contributing, the tone of the dialogue here these makes your average reddit forum seem like a pleasant and welcoming place.
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  #50  
Old 01.06.2016, 13:56
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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But thanks for the reminder why I mostly just occassionally scan this forum these days and avoid contributing, the tone of the dialogue here these makes your average reddit forum seem like a pleasant and welcoming place.
Would you prefer it if everyone agreed with you?
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  #51  
Old 01.06.2016, 13:59
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Would you prefer it if everyone agreed with you?
No I'd prefer it if there was a dialogue not cheap ad hominems and lame logic fallacies not worthy of the 5th form debating club.
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  #52  
Old 01.06.2016, 14:23
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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No I'd prefer it if there was a dialogue not cheap ad hominems and lame logic fallacies not worthy of the 5th form debating club.
But surely if you are selling an idea like, you ought to at least have shown it works yourself?

There was another thread on here about marathons and someone was offering advice on how to train for one - and they hadn't even run one themselves.

I know how to eat healthily - and it doesn't involve supplements or any other pseudo-science gleaned from the internet.

We live in Switzerland, not the Arctic circle - you really can get all the nutrients you need from everyday food without resorting to any supplements*.

So how is what I have written lame in any sense?

* apart from the medically-advised ones such as folic acid for pregnant women and for people with a medical condition etc etc.
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  #53  
Old 01.06.2016, 14:39
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Additional relative to what?
Additional by definition would mean on top of what is already being consumed. In general a western diet now contains more protein than ever before, so unless the OP is consuming a protein limited diet is unlikely to need more in order to tone/build muscle.

The fact the OP is talking about a "Bikini workout" throws up warning flags to me - it suggests a temporary fix where the op will look as hot as hell for the first 2 weeks of summer - then enjoy a summer of cocktails, BBQs and excess - panicking come October that they won't look good at Christmas and do the "Christmas party dress workout" - where upon, you've guessed, they will enjoy Gluhwein and Christmas meals - and return back to where they are now - or where they are now + a few KGs. There is a whole industry built on people doing that.

As much as people like to bring up metabolism and the feeling of being sated. The truth is simple: if you want to lose weight calories out > calories in.

If you have a high metabolism then the calories out is easy. If you have a low metabolism you will need to reduce calories in - and one way to do that is to have foods that keep you full for longer - for some reason a soup does this better than a meal + glass of water.

If instead of looking for shortcuts we either followed the basic "In and out" rule - and/or lived with the consequences of not living by it - we'd all be happier.
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  #54  
Old 01.06.2016, 15:30
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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But surely if you are selling an idea like, you ought to at least have shown it works yourself?

There was another thread on here about marathons and someone was offering advice on how to train for one - and they hadn't even run one themselves.

I know how to eat healthily - and it doesn't involve supplements or any other pseudo-science gleaned from the internet.

We live in Switzerland, not the Arctic circle - you really can get all the nutrients you need from everyday food without resorting to any supplements*.

So how is what I have written lame in any sense?
Sounds like you are conflating my advice with that of others. Yes, I have applied my advice to myself with success. And tried variations around a theme and been my own guinea pig. As I said I dont necessarily stick to it, but that doesnt invalidate it, which is what I found rather lame in your argumentation.

Supplements, I agree are not essential, but that is not the same as not being beneficial or having an effect, and some definitely are and do. As you say we live in CH, and mostly do not limit our lives to what is only essential. It's not essential to have a nice car, or luxury holidays either, but that doesnt make them a waste of money.

Healthy eating. I've no doubt you do. But as regards body composition it is my experience there is more to do with it than just calories in/out. We are not perfect machines or closed systems (in the scientific sense). Eating healthy doesnt necessarily equate to eating what is best for your specific goals. But you have to find out what works for you, some mixes of macros work better for different people and what works for men and women seems to differ strongly too. It might just boil down to satiety or "stickability", or even placebo effect, but again that doesnt invalidate the relevance of this aspect.

That said for sure, ultimately you need to run a moderate calorie deficit if you want to lose weight. But actually the objective shouldnt be to be a particular weight, but to feel good about the way you look, if that is important to you, and achieve that look in as healthy a way as possible.
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Old 01.06.2016, 16:08
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

Supplements needed = a Smile, and a personality.

It's all BS, be happy about yourself screw these expectations everyone should look like x or y. Too much pressure on women to be perfect.

In my perception many already are. What is perfect? Why are you qualified to offer advice here?

Who the f*** am I to judge someone else?
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  #56  
Old 01.06.2016, 23:59
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Supplements needed = a Smile, and a personality. It's all BS, be happy about yourself screw these expectations everyone should look like x or y. Too much pressure on women to be perfect. In my perception many already are. What is perfect? Why are you qualified to offer advice here? Who the f*** am I to judge someone else?
Yep attitude goes a very long way. Otherwise chill out dude!

I hope the OP doesn't want to change just for others or some imposed idea of value. But guess what there are people who decide to change for themselves, or for whatever reason and entitled to do so.

We are all qualified to offer advice since it's a chat forum and the OP asked a question. And realize your own view is just as judgemental as everyone else's in its own way.
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  #57  
Old 02.06.2016, 09:42
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Yep attitude goes a very long way. Otherwise chill out dude!

I hope the OP doesn't want to change just for others or some imposed idea of value. But guess what there are people who decide to change for themselves, or for whatever reason and entitled to do so.

We are all qualified to offer advice since it's a chat forum and the OP asked a question. And realize your own view is just as judgemental as everyone else's in its own way.
Not really. She asked for specific advice and very few gave an answer to her question they gave opinions about muscle building and toning.

These people are boring f***s, nearly as bad as cocaine users. Hey look I can lift 15kg of dog sh** for one rep more than you if I take horse roids and drink goats p*** for the week
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Old 07.06.2016, 23:08
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

I might be a bit late to the party. Apologies. But I do know a bit of stuff about nutrition and fitness, having lost 110lbs and now training for insane strength.

A number of things stick out to me in your posting. So I'll just chop it apart and respond to the points that stuck out on a point-to-point basis.

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I have just bought a BBW (BikiniBodyWorkout) which had great reviews and recommendations ect...it comes as a download and includes a 60 day Diet/healthy eating program. I thought this would be great to accompany me off the sofa and into a healthy lifestyle BUT the meal plan has loads of supplements for example:

pobiotics
1gm vit C
1 scoop of Athletic Greens
2 Omega 3 caps
2 rounded scoops of BioTrust protein
5000u vit D
2 omega 3 caps
2 omega 3 caps
1gm vit C

and thats just in one day
First: Congratulations! Well done on trying to improve yourself. Keep at it!

Now, most of these diet plans are set up with a calorie deficit in mind. I don't know the specifics of both your body and the diet plan your Bikini Body Workou suggests, but looking at these supplements, they seem to be aimed at boosting your regeneration and muscle growth (more on that later, because you need this).
  • Athletic Greens are pretty good, but you can replace them for the most part with the cheaper vitamin pills you get at Migros
  • Any kind of whey protein will do instead of the BioTrust stuff. A very basic guide on protein powder, its function and so on, you can find here: http://fitaste.ch/protein-shakes/ (It's in German. Feel free to ask me about translations if it's needed).
  • The rest will not harm you and boost your immune system
  • I would add Magnesium pills to the supplement, as that will keep your muscles from getting sore to a degree and help with the avoidance of cramps. When having a super active lifestyle, take about 200% of the daily dosage.
Essentially, these supplements are heavily indicative of a very active lifestyle and are taking care of a body that's being used. That's what it's needed for. In every day life, if your main exertion is lifting the occasional shopping bag, this isn't necessary, of course. But if you go do a few workouts a week, this is quickly becoming something you should seriously consider in order to keep up performance and avoid injury.


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Do I really need this? it really does seem counterintuitive to a clean healthy diet?
None of the things up there are unclean or unhealthy. Sure, they're pills and powders, but they're basically concentrated forms of things you usually get in your food. But cutting out calories cuts food intake cuts nutrients. So you need to make sure that you have those and the supplements up there make sure that you get the raw fuel your body needs. If you want to show me the entire workout and diet regimen, I can probably give you further insight.

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The workout is basically 'sculpting muscle' weights ect, but I do not want to look like a muscle woman!
I'm sorry, this one made me chuckle. I hear this one so often at the gym when I hear new people talk. Basically, when they ask me, I tell them that if they find something that transforms all the soft spots into hard muscle over night, then they should tell me about it. Because I want that too.

Looking like a muscular beast of a man or a woman is incredibly hard. Especially for women, because they retain fat better than men. I've been going to the gym daily for five months now and I still look plenty soft.

What they mean with muscle growth is that your body needs to grow muscle in order to meet the ever-increasing challenges you give it. After the first workout, you will ache, your muscles will be sore. But they will regenerate.

And because the human body is absolutely amazing, it's regenerating and then adds some. Meanwhile, your metabolism will adapt. Your lungs will perform better, your heart will adapt to the stress, your ligaments get more elastic and - most importantly - your muscles will grow because they dread the next workout. They want to be ready for what's up next. That's why you're upping the weights after a while to repeat the process.

Does that make sense? Sure, it's not the most scientific explanation of all time, but I've tried to explain working out and dieting in a simple way. If you have questions or if you can poke holes into my explanation, let me know.
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Old 07.06.2016, 23:36
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Re: Supplements for a new Bikini workout....

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Does that make sense? Sure, it's not the most scientific explanation of all time, but I've tried to explain working out and dieting in a simple way. If you have questions or if you can poke holes into my explanation, let me know.
Yes it does! thank you for keeping it simple, ill admit I know nothing!!
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