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Old 14.10.2009, 09:35
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Re: Running shoes advice

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PS
apologies to OP for hijacking your thread
It's still running shoe advice - it's just that this thread is adapting to the seasons
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  #22  
Old 14.10.2009, 09:39
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Re: Running shoes advice

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I've tried out various slip-on spikes and landed on Kahtoola's micro spikes. http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.html Excellent for snow and ice running. They never fall off (unlike all the others I tested) and they are perfect for variable winter conditions (excellent grip without getting in the way of running). I throw them in my backpack for winter runs along the Albis Ridge and just pull them on once I hit the snowy/icy parts of the trail. The only downside is that you can't just head out the door in them (to run on the non-snowy bits on the way to the hills). With some of the other slip-on spikes (more designed for walking to the train than winter trail running) and some of the shoes with built-in spikes, you could actually run on them even when not on the snow. It's never been a problem for me though because I do all my winter trail runs with a backpack.
Excellent - snow chains for the feet! - Thanks for the advice
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  #23  
Old 14.10.2009, 09:47
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Re: Running shoes advice

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I'm surprised about the negativity surrounding Gortex. It's a PTFE membrane (albeit with a backing layer) so weighs practically nothing.

I've got some Gortex lined hiking boots (KSBs) and they are brilliant - I can wade through streams etc and my feet stay dry.

Wearing my normal runnig shoes, I ended running through some long wet grass the other day up in the hills and had to do another 30Km to get home
I would have thought Gortex would have been great for this sort of thing.
KSBs haven't seen them in awhile. My sportiva hiking boots also with goretex haven't been waterproof in a long while. Maybe they use a different thickness of membrane or something? Either way there's more scope with a boot as you can protect the goretex more easily than in a running shoe.

The montrails are available in goretex or non and there was a definite weight saving all be it small going for non. But i think the clincher is the breathability issue, previously mentioned. Also the membrane of a running shoe soon gets grit rubbing it and breaking it down so even if they do work they won't for long. My final reasoning is that if it really did work then all fell running shoes would have it in them as opposed to non of them.
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Old 18.10.2009, 22:12
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Thanks to all for the advice on trail shoes - lots of good stuff there.

Johno - thanks for all the links!

I'm surprised about the negativity surrounding Gortex. It's a PTFE membrane (albeit with a backing layer) so weighs practically nothing.

I've got some Gortex lined hiking boots (KSBs) and they are brilliant - I can wade through streams etc and my feet stay dry.

Wearing my normal runnig shoes, I ended running through some long wet grass the other day up in the hills and had to do another 30Km to get home with socking wet soaks which wasn't pleasant (do I sound too wimpish here ).
I would have thought Gortex would have been great for this sort of thing.

Oh, well , I'll let you know how I get on.

Lots of good stuff indeed, IMO this deserves a dedicated thread for trail running shoes.

It has started snowing on Zugerberg, has someone checked out Uetliberg recently? It is time to think of something for the snow running, first timer there

As for your problem of feet getting wet due to seepage thru' socks, can gaiters be a solution
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  #25  
Old 18.10.2009, 22:19
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Re: Running shoes advice

And a bit OT and out of season, but no harm in sharing best practices

Over the last few months I ended up running over the soft trails of Zugerberg, it has a lot of soft pastures, so no need to stick to trails.

I did it mostly barefoot, and I felt very safe running downhill, as the toes would dig into the soft earth below and adapt to the small undulations. Often the grass is a over a foot tall, so you can't make out the shape of earth below, but the feet would decide how to take each landing.

But now that it is cold and I need to wear shoes, I find it much harder to run downhill, I am perceiving the risk of twisted ankles, which I never had to worry earlier.

I am wondering how long before they invent winter version of the 5 Fingers that cover the ankles and stay warm/dry
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  #26  
Old 19.10.2009, 22:34
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Re: Running shoes advice

love hearing about your barefoot running experiences Niranjan!

I'm about to order some winter FiveFingers (model FLOW). I'll let you know they work out. After doing all my speed training the past six months in FiveFingers, I can't imagine running the track in anything else (even in winter)!
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Old 19.10.2009, 22:54
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Re: Running shoes advice

so, are they furry? sounds like slippers to me.
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  #28  
Old 20.10.2009, 09:52
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Re: Running shoes advice

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love hearing about your barefoot running experiences Niranjan!

I'm about to order some winter FiveFingers (model FLOW). I'll let you know they work out. After doing all my speed training the past six months in FiveFingers, I can't imagine running the track in anything else (even in winter)!
Hi all

I am sure the FiveFingers are good to run in, but just my opinion, I tried a pair on the other day and I felt abit like big bird from sesame street and abit silly.

Regards
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Old 20.10.2009, 10:15
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Hi all

I am sure the FiveFingers are good to run in, but just my opinion, I tried a pair on the other day and I felt abit like big bird from sesame street and abit silly.

Regards
Sorry, I not a native speaker, so I didn't quite get your sesame street simili.

All I can say is, how you feel is a deeply personal matter. I feel silly paying supernormal amounts for a product that is at best a harmless placebo, and at worst, likely to increase my chances of injury...

As an aside, I try to keep an open mind and revise my opinions in light of new information and insight

@Kate: yeah, to me they do look warm and cuddly, if not furry

@advntur: look forward to hearing your feedback. Thanks
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Old 20.10.2009, 10:29
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Sorry, I not a native speaker, so I didn't quite get your sesame street simili.

All I can say is, how you feel is a deeply personal matter. I feel silly paying supernormal amounts for a product that is at best a harmless placebo, and at worst, likely to increase my chances of injury...

As an aside, I try to keep an open mind and revise my opinions in light of new information and insight

@Kate: yeah, to me they do look warm and cuddly, if not furry

@advntur: look forward to hearing your feedback. Thanks
This is a forum, people are supposed to give their experiances and thoughts, thats how it works

I think advntur said in an earlier post that he used his only for track or on the wood chip trails as they had very little cushioning. which I would agree with.
I think I tried are a mile away from a running shoe and maybe they are more a gimmik.
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  #31  
Old 20.10.2009, 10:58
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Re: Running shoes advice

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This is a forum, people are supposed to give their experiances and thoughts, thats how it works

I think advntur said in an earlier post that he used his only for track or on the wood chip trails as they had very little cushioning. which I would agree with.
.
Following on from this, as no sole of feet protection is really required on a running track, and ignoring warmth factor, what advantages have these things really got over running bare feet? I can;t see any obvious benefit.

It's not as if they are inexpensive to buy.
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  #32  
Old 20.10.2009, 11:06
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Re: Running shoes advice

Looks like it might be a good idea to avoid those Nikes with the Nike + iPod interface ...
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  #33  
Old 20.10.2009, 12:53
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Re: Running shoes advice

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The thing is, most of us have lived and grown up in cities and plains wearing shoes all the time, so our feet are soft and can't stand rough surfaces. Vibrams just offers some skin protection; it is nothing as romanticized by the Vibrams website either. ...
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Following on from this, as no sole of feet protection is really required on a running track, and ignoring warmth factor, what advantages have these things really got over running bare feet? I can;t see any obvious benefit.

It's not as if they are inexpensive to buy.
I can't see any either, as I had detailed in my first post in this thread

Nor do I consider they are inexpensive, that is why I use them only where I need it and can afford it: on the odd section of asphalt/gravel that I encounter during trail runs. I ran my first Intervals on track last week, it felt great running barefoot; with the onset of winters I might switch to the Vibrams.

I think they are a terribly expensive way to run on roads due to the fast wear, that is why perhaps Advntur runs on Nike Free; I do with mostly on cheap light shoes.
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  #34  
Old 20.10.2009, 15:51
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Re: Running shoes advice

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I can't see any either, as I had detailed in my first post in this thread
Cool - I'll run in bare feet - that'll save me 200 CHF.
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  #35  
Old 21.10.2009, 00:13
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Following on from this, as no sole of feet protection is really required on a running track, and ignoring warmth factor, what advantages have these things really got over running bare feet? I can;t see any obvious benefit.

It's not as if they are inexpensive to buy.
Good point. I warm-up and cool-down barefoot on the track. Mid-summer when I tried to do a full 40-minute interval session barefoot (either 800 meter or 1600 meter repeats), I didn't have the toughness built up in my feet to make it through it without blistering. This left me with a couple odd blisters going into one of my races, so I opted for the protection of the FiveFingers. Plus, when I'm at my redline during an interval (heart rate in the high 190s), I don't want to chance a haze-induced mis-step that would result in a ripped off toe nail -- a minor annoyance during the off-season, but a show stopper during the summer racing season!

It's reached a point now where pulling out the FiveFingers has a major psychological advantage for me -- like a dog reacting to seeing the leash come off the shelf. It means it's time for speed play on the track -- I get excited and focused on what I need to do to maximize this specific type of training. I never got that feeling when I pulled regular running shoes out of my bag, so for me it's worth some of the price just for the psychological advantage. I'll take any trick I can get to help with motivation and this one seems to be working!
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Old 21.10.2009, 13:33
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Re: Running shoes advice

An NY Times article on running barefoot: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1...etter-for-you/

Personally, I run in shoes and really like them, but if running barefoot works for you, then do it. If I run in no shoes or different kinds of shoes, it hurts. Shoe fit is highly individualized, so it is really worth it to work with someone who knows what they're doing. Running for a long time in a poorly fitting shoe can cause serious and long-term injury.

The shoe industry says that a pair of running shoes will last you 300-500 miles, so you can bet that I try to get as many miles as possible out of my franc!
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Old 21.10.2009, 20:54
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Re: Running shoes advice

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An NY Times article on running barefoot: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1...etter-for-you/

Wait — why isn’t the question “Is Running in Shoes Better for You?” Since when did motion-controlling shoes become the default position for the human foot?

It’s bizarre, and i guess admirable in a perverse, market-manipulating, sucker-born-every-minute way, that motion-controlling shoes are considered natural and bare feet are seen as some kind of thrill-seeking experiment. Since when did an artificial contrivance with absolutely zero scientific evidence to recommend them become the default position? The burden of proof isn’t on the human foot — which had been doing fantastically well on its own for 2 million years, thank you very much. It’s on these overpriced, overengineered novelty items which have done nothing to decrease the injury rate in 40 years.

— christopher mcdougall

...just one of the many interesting comments on that journalistic piece.




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Personally, I run in shoes and really like them, but if running barefoot works for you, then do it. If I run in no shoes or different kinds of shoes, it hurts. Shoe fit is highly individualized, so it is really worth it to work with someone who knows what they're doing. Running for a long time in a poorly fitting shoe can cause serious and long-term injury.
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The shoe industry says that a pair of running shoes will last you 300-500 miles, so you can bet that I try to get as many miles as possible out of my franc!
I am slightly surprised that you still feel it is worth it to work with people "who know what they are doing." Of course they know what they are doing, if you mean the sales clerks in specialist shoe shops, or running coaches that advise people to buy only from "serious manufacturers"; presumably they know what such big words mean.

What we don't know however, and this is important, is the value of such knowledge. We don't know if such knowledge is just harmless story telling or something more dangerous.

The burden of proof lies on the person professing such knowledge, not on simpletons running barefoot carefree.
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  #38  
Old 04.03.2011, 16:28
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Re: Running shoes advice

This was published in nature in Jan 2010 by Prof Daniel Liebermann at Harvard
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture08723.html

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Humans have engaged in endurance running for millions of years1, but the modern running shoe was not invented until the 1970s. For most of human evolutionary history, runners were either barefoot or wore minimal footwear such as sandals or moccasins with smaller heels and little cushioning relative to modern running shoes. We wondered how runners coped with the impact caused by the foot colliding with the ground before the invention of the modern shoe. Here we show that habitually barefoot endurance runners often land on the fore-foot (fore-foot strike) before bringing down the heel, but they sometimes land with a flat foot (mid-foot strike) or, less often, on the heel (rear-foot strike). In contrast, habitually shod runners mostly rear-foot strike, facilitated by the elevated and cushioned heel of the modern running shoe. Kinematic and kinetic analyses show that even on hard surfaces, barefoot runners who fore-foot strike generate smaller collision forces than shod rear-foot strikers. This difference results primarily from a more plantarflexed foot at landing and more ankle compliance during impact, decreasing the effective mass of the body that collides with the ground. Fore-foot- and mid-foot-strike gaits were probably more common when humans ran barefoot or in minimal shoes, and may protect the feet and lower limbs from some of the impact-related injuries now experienced by a high percentage of runners.
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  #39  
Old 09.06.2011, 19:46
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Re: Running shoes advice

Hi
I haven't yet given up on 'barefoot' running, and looking for a way how to get there.
I've tried the vibrams but they didn't work for me, so I am thinking about to get a transition shoe, something between my gel asics and the vibram - like Nike Free 5.0, Merrell barefoot pace glove, or the innov-8 road-x 255.
Good ideia? Or should I just toughen up and give the vibrams another go?
Tips would be much appreciated.
(especially from other females which shoes work for them.)
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  #40  
Old 09.06.2011, 20:30
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Re: Running shoes advice

Like many Swiss I grew up constantly barefoot- running on grit or anything, all-weather didn't bother me. The feet of those that mostly wear shoes when growing up is different. I have very thick ugly pads covering the bottom of my feet, I have tried everything to get rid of it to no avail. It looks ugly in pretty shoes. I still don't wear shoes out of habit but most cultures see this as weird-primitive and unhygienic.

I don't like running shoes because they change the balance of my foot. But I don't run as a hobby.

I also have a massive big toe.

"The big toe is thought to carry some 40% of the bodyweight and is responsible for forward propulsion

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Obviously, the ideal solution to the running related injury problem in shod
populations lies in barefoot locomotion, since protective adaptations seems to be
optimized for this state. Normally shod people would have to allow sufficient time for
adaptation of the plantar skin and intrinsic foot musculature (perhaps 6 weeks), and
run barefoot frequently, perhaps daily, to sustain this adaptation. However, once
adapted, the foot is extremely durable.

The lower extremity is inherently durable, and, when unencumbered by footwear, it
can endure running without signs of chronic overloading, because a vigilant system
restrains shock. The use of modern athletic footwear, in addition to being inferior to
older footwear in moderating shock during running, renders the lower extremity
susceptible to injury because of design flaws introduced by the preoccupation with
optimization of plantar comfort.

The obvious solution to the problem of chronic overloading in shod runners is to
promote barefoot running.
http://www.livingbarefoot.info/2009/...r-bare-feet-2/
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