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Old 09.10.2009, 13:54
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Running shoes advice

Hi All,

I'm a relative newbie to running, I started last year for the first time ever and trained to finish the 10km in the Lausanne Marathon.

The ancient pair of Reeboks I have used up to now are looking a bit worse for wear and I'd like to invest in a decent pair of running shoes. Whats your recommendations for a good quality/price trade off available in Ch?

I have wear patches on both the inner and outer edges of the upper part and on the heal...does this mean I don't under or overpronate?

Thanks!
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Old 09.10.2009, 14:08
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Re: Running shoes advice

Hi,

I would strongly recommend you to go thru the same procedure I went thru to buy my Asics Gel-Kayano:

- Find yourself a specialized sports (running) shop around you
- call and ask them if they do the running test to check your exact posture while running (their supposed to check how you run on a running-belt and give you a shoe that suits YOUR feet)
- if yes, take an appointment and make sure you have time

I was recommended this procedure by a good friend and long time runner.
Was skeptical but the end result was great!
The man in the shop took at least an hour and made me test every single shoe on the running-belt.
He also found out the way my feet hit the ground was causing the pain in my knees, and gave me a shoe that corrected that.
I finally found a shoe that supports my bad knees.

That shop is in DE, however, I am sure you can find similar service in CH.

TAE
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Old 09.10.2009, 14:36
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Re: Running shoes advice

You should go to "New Concept Sports" in Epalinges, just outside Lausanne.

The have very knowledgeable staff that will film you running on a treadmill, examine the tread patterns of your old shoes and offer you a selection of suitable trainers that you're allowed to go for a jog in outside, to get a real feel for how they'll perform for you.

Limited web info available is on this site : http://footing-club.ch/horaires.php?menu=ncs
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Old 09.10.2009, 14:37
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Re: Running shoes advice

Gypsyspears,
I haven't got specific advice for where to go in Zurich, as I have always got my shoes back in London.

However... (the useful and positive bit)

1) DO take your old running shoes in, as any half-smart assistant can use the wear on the tread to start recommending shoes.

2) As suggested, running on a belt and being analysed is a top tip, but failing that, try on the shoe with normal running socks and have a quick run around the shop or up/down the street. You may look strange , but it is worthwhile as it helps discount lots of shoes immediately.

3) Make the investment in "running shoes" if you are training for another race. DON'T use this for other activities such as gym/tennis/football as you will decrease the support and stability that a proper running shoe affords. This is particularly important if you are building up to longer races.

4) Lastly don't be afraid to take your time and spend some $$$. Price doesn't necessarily mean better, but a good shoe will prevent injuries especially impact related problems to shins and knees.

Good luck
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Old 09.10.2009, 14:38
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Re: Running shoes advice

I have just bought some running shoes from the UK - www.startfitness.co.uk

Prices are pretty good and range is massive.
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Old 09.10.2009, 15:52
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Re: Running shoes advice

Do what the others say - go to a specialist shop, take your own shoes, get all the advice, try on all the pairs that they suggest and if there is a pair that suit you then buy them there.
It may cost more but the shop has just given you loads of advice and time.

After a few months and if you are totally happy with the shoes buy they are worn out then buy the same ones again at a discount price on the internet or abroad if you travel. You'll pay substantially less with these subsequent purchases.
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Old 09.10.2009, 22:38
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Hi All,

I'm a relative newbie to running, I started last year for the first time ever and trained to finish the 10km in the Lausanne Marathon.

The ancient pair of Reeboks I have used up to now are looking a bit worse for wear and I'd like to invest in a decent pair of running shoes. Whats your recommendations for a good quality/price trade off available in Ch?

I have wear patches on both the inner and outer edges of the upper part and on the heal...does this mean I don't under or overpronate?

Thanks!
Or Check some old theads on here, I can recomend City sports in Zurich do full foot analysis so you will get a good pair
(and mention Basel Dragons and get 10% discount)
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Old 09.10.2009, 22:50
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Re: Running shoes advice

agree with the above my additional tips would be

DO go to a proper running shoe shop rather than buy on the web so that you get to try them out in your own time. Sorry I haven't found one here yet
Each brand has slightly different fittings and their models are designed for varied foot types and activities. Try on different brands as well as models. What suits your mate best might not fit you...
Think before buying last years model - this isn't a fashion thing but running shoes deteriorate if stored for too long
If you can afford it, have 2 pairs on the go at the same time - one slightly older than the other - and alternate them (in pairs - obviously). It's easier to spot when they are wearing out rather than getting accustomed to having no bounce.

Finally - I have to admit - colour isn't an important factor
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Old 10.10.2009, 13:32
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Re: Running shoes advice

I agree with the part that you need to buy shoes from a shop, and buy something that feels comfortable. I don't agree with the tech-speak though.

Specialist shoes/stores IMO are just marketing gimmicks; there is no scientific evidence that they reduce injury. In fact, because people who use "specialist" shoes are likely to pound their feet harder due to a false sense of safety, they could be worse off than ordinary shoe runners. But this is just the tip of the iceberg; and the jury is still out on the efficacy and safety of specialist running shoes.

Given this, while buying shoes I'd rather rely on my own common sense than that of the cute/blonde sales clerks selling specialist shoes.

Contradictory to the previous posters that running shoes should be preserved exclusively for running, I wear my shoes throughout the day (for office, for shopping, for catching the tram etc.), that way they begin to fit my feet perfectly, so I can run 10-12 hour in ultra-maras without skin chaffing, toes rubbing etc.

For me color is the deciding factor for final purchase. At best these "running shoes" are placebos, so I might as well buy a shape/color that I like.

As for the dilemma about over-pronation/under-pronation, I would say, just ignore it if you are running fine and without any specific discomfort/injury; if you look hard you will find a name for everything but that doesn't necessarily mean it means something significant. The wear pattern you noticed could just as well be a sign that you have been spending time out rather than on the couch, and that is a good sign.

I like Vibrams 5 fingers. I carry them in my beltpack during training runs in soft trails, where I prefer to go barefoot, and wear them when I hit rocky/asphalt patches. I think the same benefits can be obtained by cheap light-weight shoes, so long as you can find one.

Each to one's own.

Edit:
For those that asked by pm: I am sure they are sold in Zurich; Ryffel Uster used to; One shop near Zug Bahnhof sells it for around 110 CHF at 25% discount. I bought mine during a trip to US at 80 USD which seems to be the normal price in US.

The thing is, most of us have lived and grown up in cities and plains wearing shoes all the time, so our feet are soft and can't stand rough surfaces. Vibrams just offers from skin protection; it is nothing as romanticized by the Vibrams website either. As with any drastic change, switching to barefoot running takes time, I am still getting used to it. In any case it seems a good strategy to alternate between different shoes, terrain, speed etc. but that is just my opinion.

Last edited by Niranjan; 29.01.2010 at 09:03.
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Old 10.10.2009, 20:49
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Re: Running shoes advice

Cheers Nirinjan

Will look into it - us triathletes are used to running in bare feet over pebbles, gravel, tarmac and muddy fields - but hadn't considered doing it intentionally!
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Old 11.10.2009, 14:20
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Re: Running shoes advice

Just wanted to second the 5 Fingers input -- I love mine. I do all my speed work sessions in them, with the cool-down barefoot. For road running over mixed urban surfaces, I use Nike Free. For trail, I have 6 pairs from various manufacturers that I rotate through, based on terrain, conditions, length of run, etc.

For the past year I've been using the (free) website attackpoint.org to track my training sessions. Nice site that allows a coach or friends to follow your training, comment on it , etc. The site has a feature that tracks your shoes. You enter in each pair, including the distance you've already logged in them, and then when you enter your training/racing runs, you pick the shoes you wore and now you're tracking the distance per shoe. It gives good insight into how various shoes hold up for you and helps in deciding when to replace, rotate, etc. Probably other training log sites/apps that do this as well ... in the end it's just been nice to have some tool to make it easy to track.
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Old 12.10.2009, 17:06
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Re: Running shoes advice

Thanks Advntr,

As usual you have elevated the discussion to a whole new level

Btw, for the casual reader who may not know the background, advntr is an elite amateur ultra runner, and currently he is amongst the top 0.000025% of the human species in this activity (hope I didn't miss out a zero). I am sure with his training runs of 3-6 hours, and 170 km race runs in the Alps, he can do full justice to those 6 pairs of trail shoes, and knows what he is buying. I am actually feeling envious of his mileage and collection of shoes

Earlier this season, I took his advice and bought my first pair of trail shoes after much thought, they really made serious difference. Actually it is quite easy to go to a large outdoors shop and blind test for traction (just wear different shoes and close your eyes and ascertain which ones slip first on the inclined surface, and there you have a crude blind test for yourself ).

As for road-running, I would agree with Advntr again. Nike free is the antithesis of "specialist running shoes"; just like the Vibrams 5 Fingers they are designed to prevent degeneration of the foot by constant external props. I think this was a smart move by the corporates when they realized they couldn’t answer disturbing questions scientists had begun asking about “specialist running shoes” from “serious manufacturers”, after a decade of free run with the gullible public.

So, for road running, we now have a wide range: specialist running shoes that offer support and motion control, cheap ordinary shoes that don’t offer anything more than skin protection, close-to-barefoot shoes (Vibrams 5 Fingers and Nike Free) which also don’t offer anything more than skin protection, and actual barefoot running; we can choose from these options depending on our attitude, lifestyle, fantasies, budget, and of course, (hopefully) some practical considerations. Each to their own!!

OP: I hope you can sift through this load of information and pick out what suits you ; happy and safe running

I will end this with a quote from my sports scientist-friend: "go out and have fun; just don't look for problems if you haven't got one"
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Old 12.10.2009, 18:13
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Thanks Advntr,

Earlier this season, I took his advice and bought my first pair of trail shoes after much thought, they really made serious difference. Actually it is quite easy to go to a large outdoors shop and blind test for traction (just wear different shoes and close your eyes and ascertain which ones slip first on the inclined surface, and there you have a crude blind test for yourself ).
I asked this before but didn't get a response so, accepting that actual fit is a personal thing:

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes?

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes for ice and snow?

Thanks

(I don't plan to run on snow and ice in bare feet! )
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Old 12.10.2009, 18:36
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Re: Running shoes advice

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I asked this before but didn't get a response so, accepting that actual fit is a personal thing:

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes?

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes for ice and snow?

Thanks

(I don't plan to run on snow and ice in bare feet! )
Massive matter of personal opinion, as said above etc...

I have successfully run in North Face XCR (hedgehog) - good vibram sole and useful as I strike the ground quite hard (i'm fat, but can run a long way). I got a gore tex pair for running out here, but if anything that hinders the shoe's breathability. The latest TNF shoe has evolved in to the "rucky chucky" that I haven't tried, but have heard good things.
http://www2.thenorthface.com/na/news/news-20080128.html

The Ultras that I have done have seen a good number of people going for New Balance and especially their specialist MDS shoe.
http://www.runandbecome.com/shop/men...-1100-mds.html

For next season's snow and ice look no further...
http://www.inov-8.com/


Lastly and for what it is worth I really rate "Run and Become", but that probably is only of use to those of you going back to the UK.
http://www.runandbecome.com/

Best of luck
and happy running
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Old 12.10.2009, 18:36
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Re: Running shoes advice

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I asked this before but didn't get a response so, accepting that actual fit is a personal thing:

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes?

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes for ice and snow?

Thanks

(I don't plan to run on snow and ice in bare feet! )
For Zurich: I found Jelmoli too expensive for my taste. But I chanced upon Bachli Bergsport when I was there buying something else. The Ground Floor is the showroom, where you get assistance from the staff, and prices are just like Jelmoli. However in the basement they have a factory outlet. They have almost identical range as above, but the staff here won't bother you much; they do have inclines, climbing walls where you can test them out liesurely. Here the prices are about 50% of the showroom prices.

Note: this is not a specialist running shop, just outdoors, but they do have a wide collection of gear for trail running. Further away, Chamonix, France has a brilliant amount of trail running shops, one will be spoilt for choice, and if you are serious, a visit there might be worth it.

(In three races in the Alps I have never seen a barefoot runner, I don't aspire to be one either, but it is not impossible: I have seen pictures from past years, of guys running barefoot at 3000m rocky terrain )

Last edited by Niranjan; 13.10.2009 at 21:07. Reason: Removed the part on Goretex in light of info provided by ptkate and cmjohno; sure it could be a marketing thing
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Old 13.10.2009, 19:56
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Re: Running shoes advice

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I asked this before but didn't get a response so, accepting that actual fit is a personal thing:

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes?

Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes for ice and snow?

Thanks

(I don't plan to run on snow and ice in bare feet! )
We all obviously missed this the first time round.

My favs are Montrails Masochists but you'll struggle to get them local to Zurich (good reason to visit Chamonix) they are my most responsive trail shoes, with a great grippy sole that give me loads of confidence to fly on technical trails, but are also fine on the sections of tarmac often encountered somewhere in the run.
Have some asics with metal studs in for ice that i picked up cheap last winter and ice bugs do a whole winter shoe range (in funky colours). Or you can get various pull on anti slip devices from most of the usual places once it gets a bit colder.
Agree with the don't bother with goretex, waste of time, and adds unnecessary weight. It's just a marketing thing.
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Old 13.10.2009, 22:02
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Re: Running shoes advice

Thanks to all for the advice on trail shoes - lots of good stuff there.

Johno - thanks for all the links!

I'm surprised about the negativity surrounding Gortex. It's a PTFE membrane (albeit with a backing layer) so weighs practically nothing.

I've got some Gortex lined hiking boots (KSBs) and they are brilliant - I can wade through streams etc and my feet stay dry.

Wearing my normal runnig shoes, I ended running through some long wet grass the other day up in the hills and had to do another 30Km to get home with socking wet soaks which wasn't pleasant (do I sound too wimpish here ).
I would have thought Gortex would have been great for this sort of thing.

Oh, well , I'll let you know how I get on.
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Old 13.10.2009, 23:01
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Hi All,
The ancient pair of Reeboks I have used up to now are looking a bit worse for wear and I'd like to invest in a decent pair of running shoes. Whats your recommendations for a good quality/price trade off available in Ch?
Thanks!
Read The painful truth about trainers, then buy a pair of Vibram Classic and let me know if they are OK because I've never tried them .
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Old 13.10.2009, 23:23
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Wearing my normal runnig shoes, I ended running through some long wet grass the other day up in the hills and had to do another 30Km to get home with socking wet soaks which wasn't pleasant.
Hey Tom,
Case in point, running through wet grass goretex is never going to help as the calf and ankle will get wet, the drips run down your leg, soak in to your sock and voila the joy of damp feet for 30km regardless.

PS
apologies to OP for hijacking your thread

Last edited by cmjohno; 13.10.2009 at 23:24. Reason: being a muppet
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Old 14.10.2009, 09:11
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Re: Running shoes advice

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Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes?
I've also had a great experience with the Montrail Mountain Masochist. I tested out at least 8 brands/models for UTMB before arriving on the Masochists. Excellent grip in all conditions and very comfortable even late in a long run. For muddy and winter runs, I've enjoyed the La Sportiva Crosslite (great lugs and stability). I'm not so fond of the Crosslites for really long runs though. I ordered my Montrails from the States at shoes.com. Even with the shipping charges, the price was half what it was when I could find the shoes in Switzerland or Chamonix.

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Has anyone got any personal recommendations for trail shoes for ice and snow?
I've tried out various slip-on spikes and landed on Kahtoola's micro spikes. http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.html Excellent for snow and ice running. They never fall off (unlike all the others I tested) and they are perfect for variable winter conditions (excellent grip without getting in the way of running). I throw them in my backpack for winter runs along the Albis Ridge and just pull them on once I hit the snowy/icy parts of the trail. The only downside is that you can't just head out the door in them (to run on the non-snowy bits on the way to the hills). With some of the other slip-on spikes (more designed for walking to the train than winter trail running) and some of the shoes with built-in spikes, you could actually run on them even when not on the snow. It's never been a problem for me though because I do all my winter trail runs with a backpack.
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