All the recent talk about biking has started me thinking about doing more road biking this year. Unfortunately my clapped out tourer isn't really upto the job and although I ride my husbands audax bike I would really like my own light weight stead that fits me properly.
So for 2000sfr can I get something good-ish? If so what? I'd like to have a little bit more of an idea before I start talking to folk in shops. All advice would be much appreciated.

I think you should choose the Colnago Ferrari and to save on shipping cost you can just go to Italy and pick it up and ride it home

Ok, that might be slightly more than 2000 CHF. I'm sure there will be lots of different opinion and advice on this subject, but I will open the floor with 3 key considerations:

1) Components: If it's Shimano, Ultegra is the level you want for that price range. Don't skimp and go with the cheaper 105 - it's a false economy in the end.

2) Gears: Since hill climbing is hard to avoid in Switzerland (yeah!) and the surrounding area, I would suggest the compact crank (a 34-50 chainring set), along with a 12-25 cassette in the back. That's what I've used for years and really like how it gives you the chance to spin a smaller gear, without the extra weight of a triple.

3) WHEELS!: Having light wheels makes a BIG difference in how you can "dance" up the hills. I like the MAVIC Ksyrium Elite (on their own they're around $600 at least in the U.S.). Or I've had Bontrager Race X Lite too and they are good as well.

I don't know about prices here in Switzerland, but ChrisW's thread here includes a pdf with some example prices (from Nov/Dec) that might help you.

Hi Kate,

I totally agree with what hillseeker has already said. Make sure your invest in quality components and wheels. I ride full with Ultegra and have a set of MAVIC Cosmic Elite wheels, which are a bit heavier than other wheelsets, but they're more aerodynamic (and flashier, too.) Having quality components makes a huge difference as to how much you will enjoy riding.

Just to add a few female-specific recommendations:

1. Men's racing saddles are terribly uncomfortable. Make sure you get a women's specific one. I have a Selle Italia Trans Am Lady and it's fantastic.

2. If your hands are small you might be better off replacing the Ultegra integrated shifters with ST-R700 or ST-R600 shifters. These are Ultegra-grade shifters that can be adjusted to be closer to the handlebar drops, which allows you to reach the brakes more easily. However, I'd test-ride a bike with normal Ultegra first to gauge whether or not you need a shorter reach to your brake levers. You might discover halfway down a mountain that you wished you had more braking power, so be sure to verify this before you buy.

3. Some manufacturers make women's specific frames. On average, women have a slightly larger leg:torso ratio than men, and the geometry of these frames are meant to accommodate for this difference. However, unless you legs are really quite long, a men's frame should be fine.

I'm sure ChrisW will be along shortly to offer some more (and probably better) advice. I wish you happy riding!

HeatherM

Oh, on

Thanks girls was wondering if everyone had gone out on their bikes.
Can see I'm going to have to do some testing, had for instance automatically assumed I'd go for a triple, seen as I like cruising the hills and pushing a big gear on the flat. It's a maze out there!
2) Gears: Since hill climbing is hard to avoid in Switzerland (yeah!) and the surrounding area, I would suggest the compact crank (a 34-50 chainring set), along with a 12-25 cassette in the back. That's what I've used for years and really like how it gives you the chance to spin a smaller gear, without the extra weight of a triple.

Today was warm enough even for me to go biking Is it really January??

Ok, you can get a triple chainring if you really want to... Especially if you like to push a big gear going on flats/downhill. That's one of the drawbacks of the compact, but for me I rarely miss it (but once again I am an UPhiller, not a DOWNhiller!). And at least in the crowds I used to hang out in, having a triple carried with it a sort of stigma (don't ask me why - just one of those crazy roadie things). But that might not exist here... at least, I'll try not to kid you too much about it

I have the smaller shifters that Heather mentioned and really like them too, since before I got them I used to get hand cramps down long descents.

Ok, I'm tad lame because I LOVE talking cycling. Maybe that's why all my friends back home were cyclists.

Anyway, Hillseaker had excellent suggestions. Triples are a pain in the butt. They are pretty much out since the introduction of the 10 speed a few years back. Compact is the way to go for sure.

I'd really like to stress the importance of bike fit. Seriously a bike should bit like a glove. And not OJ Simpson's glove! Make sure that you get proper attention from the store of purchase. If you do not. Walk out! To be properly fitted on a road bike measurements should be taken, or at the very LEAST, you are put on the bike of choice in a bike trainer to ride so they can see your positioning.

I do not know about Europe, but in the States, we sort of haggle our prices at the smaller shops. Actually, I say, 'this is more than I wanted to spend', and then they throw in lots of freebies like helmets, tires, etc.

If you know someone in the States, once you know your size, you can buy a really nice Specialized Allez for about $1500 and ship it over.

Oh, and I suggest a great women's saddle. Terry Butterfly. It's about 50 francs. All the women in my club back home use them.

Good Luck!

There's nothing wrong with a triple! In fact, just yesterday I bit the bullet and purchased an Ultegra triple crank to replace my compact. My arthritic knees can't take the hills anymore! However, as my husband tells me, this way I'll be just like Lance, pulling a high cadence on the climbs!

HM

hey, thanks for that tip, was looking for a good women's saddle for a while, now I know what to look for!

I agree with Heather that there's nothing wrong with a triple, although me too, I've encountered some 'compact snobism' along the road.

I'm riding a (Jamis) cross-bike myself, I like it a lot. Very light, but with a slightly wider fork than a regular road-bike and slightly wider tires with thread. So more resistance, but on the other hand it allows you to go on tracks that are unaccessable for road bikes (e.g. up the Uetliberg). Apparently cross-bikes are hard to come by here in Switzerland. If you're interested in it, I would seriously consider buying one online, because prices here in Switzerland are disgustingly inflated. But then again, I have to admit, there's the advantage of the local bikeman.

Good luck and let us know what you end up buying

I often wish I had a cross bike too - There are so many great places to ride around here that turn into gravel roads. Some of the best mountain passes seem to be that way.

When we did Stelvio Pass last summer our friends had made a sort of cross bike by putting slicks on a hardtail - Even though there was no gravel on the side we did, they were much more comfortable on the looong and winding descent (not to mention they had mtb gears on the ascent!). And the next day we did the approach from the Swiss side where there was some gravel, so their cross bikes would have been better there too.

Of course it depends on what kinds of rides you plan on doing -- Do you want to race or hang on with packs of roadies (if so then the racer bike is the way to go), or climb mountain passes on your own or in a small group (then you may want to consider a cross bike)... or even do some of the Swiss national routes - since as this thread says, they have lots of gravel/trails too.

So there's some more to chew on!

I'm going to support the anti-triple lobby, they're ugly, heavy and make you look like a bit retro these days I reckon. Compacts have pretty much filled that gap for proper road bikes. As to what to get I don't know how complicated you want to make it and whilst I agree ultegra is better than 105 etc and mavic make great wheels, I'd go and get a Specialized, from a good bike shop with a workshop so you know they're serious, at the price you can afford that fits well. I reckon they are the Fords of road bikes - good value and people always get on well with them. http://www.specialized.com/ Good hunting...I reckon Switzerland is a great place to ride. I work at the UCI in Aigle...pop in if you're passing

You may want to check out what Canyon has to offer in their road bike line. Hillseeker raves about her Canyon mountain bike. I imported a Titus mountain bike from the States last summer and while I love it, I was shocked at how close in quality and low weight the Canyon was to the bike that cost me twice as much! Components are a commodity, so it comes down to quality and fit of frame build. Canyon sells direct (lower prices) and it's an easy import from Germany. The downside is the lack of "local bike shop" connection and test riding. They do a good job with remote fit (you send them your measurements), but nothing beats taking a spin on the bike. If you want to check them out, this one may come close to what you're looking for.

As for components, I've used the full spectrum and have been very pleased with Ultegra and up. The "feel" and quality is worth the price in my opinion. The difference between Dura Ace and Ultegra is really minor (although DA does add a modicum of motivation to get out on the bike when motivation wanes) -- but that's up to the individual!

Compact cranks are fantastic and have happily spun me over many high passes, but go with what works for you. I'd never use a 53-39 in Switzerland if you want hill immersion -- compact or triple is the way to go here.

Fit, fit, fit -- just make sure that with whether you order online or buy at a shop or take from our cellar that your fit is dialed in. It's partially the frame size and geometry, partially the saddle model and height, and partially stem height/length/rise and handlebar width. All that and a color you like sure doesn't hurt!

Thanks for all the suggestions, you given me lots to mull over.

At Veloplus in wetzikon you can sit on and test out loads of their saddles, obviously isn't like riding a 100 miles but gives you some idea, are butts are all different!

If you are interested I have 2 road bikes for sale

1. Trek 5500 OCLV carbon 56 cm, all ultegra, fizik pavé saddle, Mavic Ksyrium wheels 2004 model. Look Jalabert pedals, CHF 2100.-

2. Trek 5200 OCLV carbon 50 cm, all shimano 600, fizik pavé saddle, Bontrager Race wheels, 2002 model. Shimano 600 pedals, CHF 1800.-

If interested please let me know.

A few comments in response to the posts about gearing:

There's nothing wrong with a triple, and a compact doesn't really cut it. I've ridden a compact a few times (34-50 teeth), and I didn't really like it because:
1. On the flat, there is no chainring to use when cruising. The 34 is definitely too small, and in the 50 I'm getting close to cross-chainring (big ring, big cog) whenever I find a slight incline. Sure, the 50 is OK on the flat, including the slight inclines when you're really going hard, but you don't always want to do that, sometimes you just wanna cruise and at those times, the 50 is too big and the 34 is too small to have a good amount of leeway in both directions (up-shifting and down-shifting) on the back.
2. On the downhills, the 50 tooth is not really big enough when I wanted to power down a straight downhill stretch, I missed my 52.
3. On the uphills, there are two things that I don't like about the 34. First, it doesn't give me a gear that I can sit and spin in when the gradient gets towards the double digits (i.e, >7%). I like to ride with a very high cadence, averaging 90+, and so the 34 doesn't work well for this on the steeps. The second thing about uphills is that for a more moderate or shorter climb, the 34 is too small. I was hammering up a moderate 4km long climb at the end of one of my favorite rides, some parts are somewhat steep (up to about 6%) so I definitely needed the small chainring, but some parts flatten off a bit and I really try to get some momentum going on those. However, when I did that I suddenly realized that I had run out of cogs on the back, I was in the small-small combo, and really needed to change into the big chainring. But making the change between the front chainrings, plus changing by a few cogs on the back would have taken far too much time and I would have lost all of the momentum that I was trying to build, so I didn't bother. A chainring in the 39-42 tooth range is absolutely perfect for that kind of climb.

Overall, I was very disappointed - I didn't like the gearing on the flat, the uphill, or the downhill. I agree, the compact looks better than the triple, and if you have a bike with a double already on it, then you can change to a compact without buying any new components other than the cransket. However, in terms of functionality, the triple wins hands down. It is said that a regular or compact double shifts better than a triple, but I'm not looking for super-slick shifting, I'm looking for a gear range that suits my riding style. Therefore, I would only recommend a triple to someone in Switzeland, or a standard doubles to people who live in flatter areas. I cannot imagine where a compact would be best.

Another word on the triple - the serious roadies will really start laughing at me for this one, but I don't care. I don't think the 30 tooth inner ring is small enough! I've now switched the 30 tooth chainring on all of my road bikes to 26 tooth rings, with the best combination then being a 26-39-52. Part of the reason for this is that with a 30 tooth ring, I would need a 12-27 cassette to get some good gears for serious (long and steep) climbs, but I don't like the spacing of the top three cogs on that: 21-24-27, the jumps are too big to keep a consistent cadence going and I'm often between gears. However, using a 26 tooth chainring means that I can use a 12-25 cassette, whose top three cogs only have 2 teeth between them: 21-23-25, which is much better spacing. My lowest gear is then 26-front-25-rear, which is significantly lower than a 30-front-27-rear, which is another advantage. A third advantage is that the 26 tooth cog and the 12-25 cassette are a few grams lighter than the 30 plus 12-27 combo. You won't be able to find a Shimano 26 tooth chainring anywhere, but other manufacturers like Stronglight make them* and you can easily get one from Veloplus. By doing this, you will exceed Shimano's stated capacity of the derailleurs, but you can easily get away with it - the rear derailleur has enough capacity to prevent the chain from contacting itself even if you do go into the small-small combo' (this applies to road rear derailleurs designed for triple chainrings, which Shimano likes to call the 'GS short' version) , and the front derailleur still shifts fine (obviously, you must have a front derailleur designed for a triple chainring). The stated derailleur capacities are always on the conservative side, it is usually possible to have a few more or less teeth than they say.

The moral of the story is not to let Shimano or other riders' opinions of style tell you what gears you should have - decide for yourself based on the riding that you do and the cadence that you like to ride at (which, to be more efficient, should be as high as is comfortable for you). I like riding up long, steep roads, at a high and consistent cadence, so a 26-39-52 plus 12-25 works perfectly for me.

On a related note, if like me, you don't like the cog spacing of Shimano's 12-27, but the 12-25 doesn't give you a low enough gear, then a great compromise is SRAM's 12-26, whose biggest three cogs are 21-23-26. It is designed to work perfectly with a Shimano drivetrain and I quite like that combination of sizes.

Sorry, Kate, this may all be too much for you at this point, you first need to worry about getting a good bike before worrying too much about customizing gearing combinations. However, much of what was said above sparked my lust to promote custom/non-standard gearing, and hopefully you'll benefit from my opinions on the compact vs triple debate.

BTW, I'll have a compact crankset for sale in a couple of months (once I've converted the last of our bikes) if anyone is interested.

* You don't need to worry about the non-Shimano 26 tooth chainring not matching the ramping pattern of your other Shimano chainrings because there are no ramps on small chainrings. However, you may need to put some thin washers between the 26-tooth cog and the attachment posts to match the Shimano spacing between the chainrings.

All good points, as always ChrisW! It is true there are some drawbacks to the compact, but overall I've been happy with mine. I used to switch out the 34 for a 36 in the front when I was doing a ride with shorter or less steep climbs, and that helped a lot.

As always there's lot of opinions on this stuff! I just had to chuckle about how you listed so many negatives about the compact, and then mentioned you'll have one for sale soon... Hopefully you find a buyer who didn't read this thread

an honest salesperson is the best salesperson. No?

Love the gears discussion, very helpful, just the kind of debate I hoped to provoke. Alot of the rest seems to be quite straight forward. Having only ridden triples, 2 different sizes (would require a trip to the shed to check numbers) and cruised past a load of people on the Furka in the summer. I liked the flexiblity of gear options it seem to give me. But will have to test out the alternatives.

Not to break the flow of this wonderful conversation, but could someone explain to me double vs compact vs triple? I I think can understand double and triple, but compact?

For the benefit of others, here's some brief descriptions I found:
Before going further, we should explain that a "double" crankset refers to one with two chainrings on the front, representing a mid and high gear range option. A "triple" crankset has three chainrings, the extra chainring being a very small one on the inside that gives you a considerably lower gear range than available with the double.



Just when you thought you had it all figured out, along comes the "Compact" crank. A new way (actually it's been around for some time, but forgotten) to get lower gears without a triple. Instead of the classic 53/39 front chainrings, you have a 50/36 (sometimes 50/34) combination that gets you quite a bit lower gears, while giving up a very small amount from the high end... all using standard double-compatible shifters & derailleurs. A high-quality compact setup is actually lighter weight than a standard double! The downside? You don't get as low a gear as a triple will offer, and you lose just a bit off your high end (the gears you'd be drafting trucks downhill in, but nothing you'd ever miss in day-to-day riding).

[http://chainreactionbicycles.com/triples.htm]

Now the question is, how do I find my bike's gear sizes? By counting teeth?

Yes sir! At least, that's how I do it. I guess when I was raving about the compact, I was forgetting about where I used to live. Flat-land USA. So, I had a standard double. That I would swap out for a compact if I was going to be driving out and hitting up some major hills. Since that'd only happen like twice a year, it was no biggie. Also, I sort of enjoy wrenching my own bikes. I'm a proud girl who loves to get her hands dirty, but also loves her pink cycling jerseys.