True, but ski racing is something very different from normal on-piste skiing, and is something that is generally not possible anyway (going as absolutely fast as possible on an open piste with everyone else there is very dangerous to both you and them, and somewhat irresponsible).

On the other hand if we are talking about risk, proper downhill/super-G racing is not exactly the safest of sports either - eg Daniel Albrecht.

Really my point is that if you understand the risks and are sensible, there is no reason why you shouldn't go off-piste if you want to. Your original post was suggesting that all people who ski off-piste are "deadheads", which I don't agree with... I've seen enough crashes etc on-piste to know that ANY sort of skiing has a degree of risk attached to it, and it is thanks to posts like Eire's that more people will hopefully understand the risks they are taking so that they can keep it at a level appropriate to them.

I actually just want them to show me the resort and where to go. I know the technique fine.

Ditto

In addition to Google Translate I use German English dictionary for the odd single word translation. It often gives better results, as in this case where it returns "autonomy; self-reliance".

You are touching on a theory I have had for a little bit but can't get the figures to support my theory at the moment.

I have a feeling that in some respects touring is safer then on piste skiing.

According to recent adverts there are 1000 accidents on the pistes each day, there are fatalities on the piste every year too (but I don't know how many). Off piste you hear about the avalanche fatalities but not very much else. Could it be that because people who ski/snowboard tour have a higher skill level are aware that what they are doing is dangerous and take necessary precautions that it may lead to less accidents?

Just a theory, I have no figures to support it at the moment.

Sure you are right. People are the leading causes of serious accidents. This is why I like to stay off the slopes. To avoid other people.

It boils down to two things, lack of awareness and lack of control.

The worst are those that are quite proficient (novices tend to have minor accidents) and happily bomb down slopes without factoring in a margin of safety for other people.

Possibly worth looking for ski clubs organising avalanche courses. I know several local ones around here do - went to one myself in Malbun organised by the LAV (free!) and was amazed to find that about 50 people turned up. 100% ski tourers, many on repeat courses. It would have been unsuited to anyone that doesn't uphill ski (as you start by heading up and out of the resort to get to the practise area) but was very useful. Main focus is on using the LVS and probe.

Might now be a bit late in the season, though. They tend to do these in December or January.

I also agree with that, it is people ( and more when big numbers of them are on the piste ) that leads to more on-piste risk.

I am more interested into on-piste slalom than to go off-piste to avoid the masses, So I figured out a way to do it and I had been doing lately.

I work in Samstagern that is only 10 minutes from Bennau and 15 from Einsiedeln.

I made an agreement with my boss so I can go quite often to ski 2 hours during the day to those places and then stay at the office longer.

It is really a good arrangement, When I go to Bennau and Einsiedeln, the slopes are almost empty, they are easier slopes for sure, but they are wide enough so you can practice your slalom or jumps or wathever in a grommed environment with people serving the lifts and ready to help in case of accident etc.

I have been doing this 2-3 times per week the last 2 weeks.

I keep my ski clothes and my slaloms skis and boots at the office and then when there is nice weather I go there, practice 2 hours and then come back to work and stay late that day.

I also agree, particularly the bit about lack of awareness. Skiing on blues and reds is a dangerous game, with a lot of people skiing considerably faster than their abilities and not able to think or act quick enough when others do something unpredictable.

There are some interesting info regarding both:

Major factors for accidents on-piste:

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/S...54610000&ty=nd

Off-piste statistics in France:

http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wik...ent-Statistics

Nice work if you can get it! Any jobs going?

This would seem logical, you are more likely to get in a car accident in rush hour traffic in a major city than you are going 200 kmph in the salt flats. I would suspect that the accident on the salt flats is more likely to be serious or fatal than the one in rush hour traffic Though fatalities can happen in both places of couse.

In my book it's:

Piste Off: Off the marked and prepared ski areas in a resort because I'm lost again...!

Not all off piste is seeking extreme thrills... it can take you to beautiful places where you feel like the mountain belongs to you and your friends alone.

I'm a pretty decent skiier and Im much more afraid on a busy piste on a Saturday afternoon, when nowadays I would guess 5-10% are skiing out of control fast and the difference between skier and boarder dynamics just add to risk.

For me a key safety measure is that I only go off-piste with a local guide on recommendation. Its not cheap, but if shared between 4 or 5 is not out of reach, and they will take you to great places.

Thanks for the post... the post that prompted you to write it was so terrifying and irresponsible I just stayed out of it.

D

Some interesting numbers in that French source. I would have thought that more snowboarders go off piste than skiers, afterall, powder runs are more fun on most snowboards than on most skis. However, combining their numbers from the last three years, which means October 2006 until now, they report 14 skiers dying in avalanches while skiing off piste compared to only 1 snowboarder (note, these numbers don't include people doing ski / snowboard touring).

Eire, or anyone else - do you have any other sources suggesting that either type of activity is more dangerous than the other.

From the results it is not possible to say if skiers or snowboarders go off piste more. It just says who have been involved in incidents. Certainly from looking around skiing is becoming more popular lately. I rekon there are more people doing skitouring then snowboard-touring, but its probably about 50/50 at the moment for freeriding.

Off piste snowboarding is actually safer then skiing. The reason for this is that a snowboarder puts less loading on the snow back then a skier does. The traditional style of off piste skiing where you jump turn very rapidly puts additional loading on the snowpack with every turn. Snowboarders tend to ride faster with wider turns and due to the width of the board float over the snow more and put less impact through each turn.
The wide skis that are becoming more prevalent now go some way towards fixing this problem. If you watch a good skier off piste on wide skis they actually ride much more like a snowboarder then the way skiers used to ride.

Eire, I'm sure you are right on the additional force of a skier vs a snowboarder on the snow. I imagine that more skiers do the really steep stuff than snowboarders too, which again will increase the comparative risk for skiers.

ChrisW, I don't think powder is more fun on a snowboard than skis. Deep powder on skis is fantastic fun when you get the technique right I don't have any numbers, but from my experience I'd say that in total numbers there are probably more off-piste skiers than snowboarders, if only because there are more skiers overall than snowboarders. Anyone else have views on this?

I think off-piste snowboarding is easier then skiing. This means that there are probably more people in it for a quick thrill through snowboarding then skiing. Hey I am one of those people. I learned how to snowboard 8 years ago and have been riding in powder from the first year. The ease of use of a snowboard off-piste makes powder more accessible, in this respect up until very recently I would have said there are more snowboarders "freeriding" then skiers but more skiers "touring" then snowboarders.

The emergence of fat skis seems to be changing this though. I certainly see more skiers freeriding in the last couple of years then before and there seems to be some snowboarders converting to skiing.

Personally I think its horses for courses. I have done many routes on a snowboard that would have been more suited to skis due to a long traverse or a walk out at the bottom. But I think if it is perfect open powder fields its probably hard to beat the surfing feeling of a snowboard. Right now I am really enjoying the challenge of learning to ski, but if its a proper freeride day I still use my board from both a fun and a safety point of view. (Safety, because I don't trust my skill on the ski's if something goes wrong yet.)

You don't even have to go off-piste to see an avalanche - some really unusual pictures shot today in Leukerbad.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panorama...story/29135476

Almost all snowboards will allow you to float on top of the powder, like surfing - a beautiful feeling, and it takes very little skill to have a lot of fun - just set up your bindings a bit further back on the board than usual to make it even easier. Just like Eire, I've been going off piste on my snowboard since my first season several years ago, when I wasn't very good on piste let alone off, but I had lots of friends to show me the way, and I was instantly hooked. As Eire mentioned, the newer, fat, powder skis might allow you to achieve a similar feeling, but most people don't have that type of ski, and I think it takes a lot more skill and energy to have fun in the powder on most skis than on most snowboards (although there must obviously be exceptions to this general rule).

I would agree that it is easier to get started in powder on a board than skis, but then most people agree it easier to learn to snowboard than it is to learn to ski in the first place.

However, I was talking about how much fun it is... I have done both skiing and snowboarding off piste, and for me skiing off piste in powder is a real challenge and therefore for me it is at least as much pure pleasure as I used to get on my snowboard. (I don't have fat skis by the way.)