Is high risk a necessary condition for something to be called an adventure sport? Is it a sufficient condition?

In other words, is it about going to places and doing difficult things that no man (or few men) have done before? Or could it also be that many people can really do it, but the vast majority simply feels it is idiotic to do it, and that leaves a small minority of school-dropouts, jerks and societal misfits forming a cult around that sport and calling themselves "elite athletes"?

Some of these thoughts and questions were kindled during recent discussions about wingsuit jumping and the like. The confusion got compounded when I heard people using the term "adventure" even for sports like ultra-running and this is where the lid blows off.

I mean, to me ultra running is the exact opposite of adventure sport, why? because it is terribly low risk. It is a sport that stregthens almost all systems of the body, improves immunity, even reduces day-to-day bruises and injuries, you name it and it has it. The perfect antithesis to BASE jumping et al IMO. So how can ultra running be "adventure" when it is in fact likely to reduce your mortality and improve your quality of life?

I started this thread to hear if people have different views about adventure. Hopefully after some time we should be able to arrive at a common workable definition of adventure sport as it means to us (I mean a family-friendly, mature-adult definition )

Wiki has this definition of extreme sport and uses it somewhat synonymously with adventure sport. It makes sense to me.

In my view, extreme sport is not synonymous with adventure sport while they may sometimes overlap. Adventure sports typically require the participant to be in some way isolated from sources of aid for periods of time (e.g. backpacking, mountain climbing, off-road motorcycling, etc). Extreme sports do not necessarily require this but do require taking significant risks for injury but may be done with advanced aid nearby. Sometimes, 'adventure' sports are defined not by their lack of aid but a lack of what is familiar (e.g. motorcycling around the world through foreign environments)

Insurers have their own list of "adventure" sports that are excluded from standard insurance. Skiing is not an adventure sport for Swiss insurers but maybe for insurers in other countries.

I love the Tag 'deranged minds' on this Thread!

In my opinion adventure sport is whatever you want it to be.

And be careful not to mix "adventure" with "extreme". The Wikipedia article has mixed the two into one. Something I think is very wrong.
I'd make the simple distinction between the two that "extreme" sports have a high risk of fatality on a standard practicing session.
"Adventure" on the other hand has, for me, to do with the complete experience - both scenery and the possible adrenaline rush.

I my world an "adventure" sport can be turned to an "extreme". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_solo_climbing and compare that to the normal climbing at a climbing gym. The foundation is the same sport, but free soloing is an "extreme" version of climbing.

I guess I have a lot of friends that do extreme sports, but none of them are not suicidal or adrenaline junkies (as far as I know).

Not sure if I made things clearer or not... If I only confused the readers here even more - my apologies.

I gladly label myself as one - Never claimed to be neither sane nor normal (and probably never will)

For me personally an adventure sport is more to do with the attitude. Does participating in a sport constitute and adventure.
One of the online dictionaries has the following as one of the definitions of adventure:
For me I do the sports I do for excitement. I try to take them to new places and see new things so I try to do something unusual as often as possible and I do them for the excitement and enjoyment they bring. Therefore in my book anything can be an adventure sport.

I may take offence to this statement about school drop-outs and jerks. I was never good at any sports as a child. I was never invited to play football because I was crap at it, I couldn't run so never got to go to the running events and because I was bad at sports in general my parents never let me compete at swimming to see if I could be any good.

The thing is I loved sports and loved to play so "adventure" or "extreme" sports were my only outlet. I could do these sports and the only competition was against myself. I discovered windsurfing at a young age and got pretty good at it. It allowed me to push myself, to push my limits and to see how far I could or was willing to take it.

I have shared the same waves as world champions in my sport and sailed at some of the most respected (for some people dangerous) places in the world for the sport. Many of the conditions I have sailed in could be considered life threatening. I've been told I'm insane to go out in those conditions many times. I have also come pretty close to drowning!

Am I one of these misfits and jerks you are talking about? Are the world champions and pro windsurfers that I used to sail with elite athletes or are they jerks? Some of the people you tar with this brush are friends of mine and people I am proud to call friends. They push the limits in their sport. They sail in the biggest waves on the planet. They are athletes and they know their sport and the environment where their sport takes place inside out. Sometimes accidents happen, but they happen in every sport not just so called extreme sports.

This gets me particularly today, because I found out that someone I used to know is laying in a hospital bed paralysed at the moment after a windsurfing accident. This guy is not a jerk, he is an elite athlete, he was at the top of his game and one of the best in the world at what he does, he is a waterman and he lives and breaths on this planet to be in the water. Whether he walks again or not I know that he will be in the ocean again.

This is bull... if you look at the definition of adventure then ultra running is an adventure sport. It is probably one of the purest adventure sports. Its just you and nature, you are pushing your body to its limits in hostile environments, not sure what is around the corner, coping with any change in weather conditions, coping with any injuries on your own.

It is also not as safe as you think. Ultra running puts incredible strain on the body. It strains the joints, can potentially cause osteoarthritis, can cause ligament and tendon damage and actually weakens the immune system. Add to that the environment where Ultra marathons tend to take place and there is a risk of serious injury and even death. Look at the disclaimers and rules you accept when entering an Ultra event. The training for these events aims to reduce the damage that the events do to your body, just like the training and experience of any other extreme athlete aims to reduce the risk associated with that particular sport. You are very naive if you think that ultra running is without risk.

In my opinion if a sport is an adventure sport it is to do with the spirit of the sport. Are you taking part in an adventure by participating in the sport. An extreme sport is any sport which is being pushed to the limits. Ultrarunning is "extreme" running, Steep off piste sketchy ski descents is "extreme" skiing, Windsurfing or surfing in 20m waves is "extreme" surfing... but running in itself, skiing in itself, or windsurfing/surfing in themselves are not extreme.

The sport is what you make it.

Just realized something from Eire's post.

I think that 99.99...999% of the people that practice "adventure" or "extreme" sports don't see it as a sport. It's a way of life.

Personally I cannot live without climbing or skiing. It's just that simple. And complicated.

And also happens to be the reason why I left a "comfortable" life in Sweden to be able to do these two things more.

I agree, I think that is why the people that are into these sports respect each other even if they don't do that sport. They understand the passion and the desire to learn as much as you can about your sport and do what you want with it.

Also, for the sports we are talking about I much prefer the term "Free sports" then extreme or adventure. The reason for this is the sports are free, generally its an expression of how you feel. The line you draw when skiing down a mountain or across a wave, the route you choose to climb, where you want to go for a run or a bike ride its all an evolving plan you go where your skill and desire take you free from the constraints of a football pitch or a street. You are truly free to ride the earth.

For me it used to be all about one sport. Now, because I don't get to do that sport here in Switzerland its more about the way of life. I've discovered more sports and the feeling the desire and the reasons why I do them are the same as why I did my main sport. It doesn't matter what I am doing its just nice to be out there doing it. I still miss windsurfing, I think about dropping in on a sweet wave every day... but then I get on my bike find a nice trail or get on skis/snowboard and find some powder and the same feeling of stoke comes back. Different drug same effect.


(God, I;m starting to sound like a hippy now! )

Another point I've noticed in climbing is that it's very non-competative. If I can climb something you cannot I won't mock you for it. Nor will I stand in your way of climbing it. I have yet to find a climber that is spiteful and won't help someone. Instead climbers will help eachother figuring out how to push further and harder.
Sure, there are competitions, but mainly as a fun event and not "Look at how good I am compared to the other loosers".

...But maybe it's just my limited experience.

I think that depends on the goal.

I don't climb, but I've read Joe Simpsons "Dark Shadows Falling" and he discusses this in that book. He talks about the humility of climbers and how they can ignore someone dieing and keep going for the summit rather then stop and just sit with the person even if they can't do anything for them. I think he describes extreme cases and its possibly only in mountaineering rather then climbing but it was interesting to read.

I know what you mean though, and agree with the sentiment. You actually get stoked when you see someone accomplish something. You're happy for them.

If you are refering to expedition climbing - i.e. "climbing" Mt. Everest - I agree with the statement that climbers may leave a comrade behind in order to reach the goal.

I should perhaps have explained that I refer to free climbing and bouldering - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climbing_styles and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouldering


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Edit: Crap! Just realized that I have derailed this thread! My sincere apologies!

I think when it comes to sport fun is whatever you make it, do it as safely as possible and don't endanger others, so what ever floats your boat works for me. I might not fancy what they class as sport, or be in anyway tempted to have a go, but then I'm not them.

the other week I witnessed a guy on a mtb come flying down a track that I wouldn't walk down, so that was pretty extreme and adventurous to me, but the people I was walking with were quite matter of fact about it.

How anyone can be anal enough to want to disect it is to establish the difference between extreme and adventure is beyond me. If you don't have the brains, balls or inclination to have a go at say base-jumping or whatever fine (I don't either), but don't insult people who have the choice to participate in something you don't.

I think the answer is in the words itself, "Adventure" & "Sport". Some people may try to disect what is or not a sport, is pot holing for example does not spring to mind as a main stream sport.

I did loads of the traditional sports as a kid but never think of them as an adventure.

However when I joined the military and starting doing "External Leadership camps" as they we called to me they were.

Doing pot holing, canoeing, rock climbing, absailing, hiking over the hulu in low visability, sea kayaking it was all an adventure to me.

They used to change the venue and also sometimes the activity, once I got to sail a Nicholson 55 for a week with a bunch of other red necks and a couple of instructors. The next time they sent us to learn to ski.

It was always and adventure, some of the activities I liked more than others, some I was not so keen on at times, like trying to climbing inverted piece of rock.

I have to say it was overall brilliant as it taught me I could do some sports I never thought I could and some part of sports I never would have believed I was capable of.

Oh, yes I forgot I learnt to windsurf in Port Stanley now that was a bit more towards the extreme as it was pretty much a fast crossing

I think the word "Extreme" should be used in the context of of pushing the boundries the limits of human abilities. This does not neccessarily mean the people that do it are mental.

I also think that people that do adventure sports do not need to be even particularly brilliant at them, it is the taking the part and getting the buzz from it.

I think that you may have got to the point of 'Adventure Sports' here. I would say that, in general, they are non-competetive and an individual pursuit. The challenge is to the individual taking part. Is is just a case of getting you out of your comfort zone?

In Interlaken, tandem paragliding is promoted as an adventure sport. I tried this for the first time a few weeks ago. Not having undertaken anything more extreme, for me, it was an adventure. The risk involved in this is pretty negligible. Also the level of sporting ability required is almost zero. If you can jog a few paces you are up in the air. The rest of the skill is with the pilot. If you suffered with vertigo, it could be a major challenge

As a bit of an ultra runner, this thread got me a little nervous that I may need to change my forum name!

I remember once a long time ago chatting with an ultra runner. Back then my interest was in Ironman triathlons. I was blown away by this guy who did 100 mile runs and thought he was so extreme. He said he was blown away by anyone who could do an Ironman triathlon and thought that was extreme. We both thought the other activity was more extreme and risky than the one we were doing. I thought the same thing about the first person I knew who had run 10 miles -- so extreme. (At the time I was an extreme sofa sitter!).

Even further back, I think my first adventure sport experience was as a 7-year old riding bikes with my friends and venturing off-road into a nearby forest to discover where the mystical paths led to. 30 years later and the feeling is the same when I hit the trails in Switzerland - I become that 7-year old again and even on trails I know, it's a time of discovery and surprise.

I love Eire's description here -- "an expression of how you feel." Just brilliant and spot-on. I invent most of my trail running routes on the fly -- this is adventure. I run down mountains fast, pick the spot where each foot strikes on uneven, rocky terrain only micro-seconds before contact -- this is adventure. I set off on runs that may last 3 hours or may last 6 -- this is adventure. There's a freedom in these adventures that Eire calls out to perfection.

Same for me -- but I think it's: same drug, same effect, just a different pipe. Speaking of, the trails beckon, time to take a hit from the ole adventure pipe now!

(Had to keep the hippy mode on!)

I don't know if this officially qualifies as 'Ultra Running'. (It is in my opinion). Comedian Eddie Izzard has just completed 43 Marathons in 51 days. I suppose for him it was an adventure. Story

This weekend, WhiteAir '09 is on not far from me in Brighton. This is promoted as an Extreme Sports and Music Festival. Among the 'extreme sports' that they are promoting are Beach Volleyball and Street Dance. I am not sure how these fit in, apart from the location. Details

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I would be interested in knowing where MTB-ing and ultra mountain running be placed by these people.

My feeling is, ultra-mountain runs would be excluded from the normal sport list. Why? I have found this segment of the sport industry sells itself as an extreme sport, that is what attracts a large portion of its customers. Most of their websites claim that their event is the world's toughest race, most picturesque one etc. So, by this line of argument, I think ultra running would be classed as adventure sport.

personally though, I can only see it as a relatively safe (atleast as safe as mountain-hiking) super-endurance sport. Somehow does not conjure the thoughts of adventure as does say mountaineering or windsurfing as described by posters above.

Insurance policies are not always logical. My policy covered me for trekking as long as I didn't use specialist equipment. Initially, they included trekking poles and crampons as specialist equipment.

They seemed to prefer people to go out unprepared. I got it sorted once I explained the irrational idea of their policy.