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Old 01.12.2010, 11:43
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Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democracy"

not as headline grabbing as some of the revelations, granted, but there must be some mild discord in Bern then again the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. and my German sucks so i couldn't really tell from the article if this was as revealing as it got. i also couldn't tell why this damning conclusion had been reached. can anyone enlighten further?
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Old 01.12.2010, 11:48
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

I sense the media is going to be dining out on these wikileaks for some months to come. Its just like the British MP expenses scandal, the revelations came in a drip-feed fashion.
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Old 01.12.2010, 11:52
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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not as headline grabbing as some of the revelations, granted, but there must be some mild discord in Bern then again the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. and my German sucks so i couldn't really tell from the article if this was as revealing as it got. i also couldn't tell why this damning conclusion had been reached. can anyone enlighten further?

I know the FBI has had a number of argumentative meetings here. Do you have a link to a specific snippet?
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Old 01.12.2010, 11:58
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

Democracy is frustrating to the US.
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Old 01.12.2010, 12:16
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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Democracy is frustrating to the US.
Exactly, I see their comments as an endorsement and not a criticism.
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Old 01.12.2010, 12:18
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

Phos - here's the online version of the article i (tried) to read this morning http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/sto...lizei-16787946
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Old 01.12.2010, 12:44
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

"frustrating alpine democracy" - in other words the US doesn't like countries which have a more democratic system than theirs; and which won't be bullied into following 'orders' like the UK & others.

+1 to the Swiss
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Old 01.12.2010, 12:49
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

I think some Swiss would take that as a compliment
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:13
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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Democracy is frustrating to the US.
It must be very frustating for the US. to see a democracy model which works, when the US. model has so many problems.
Salut Zämma
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:15
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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It must be very frustating for the US. to see a democracy model which works, when the US. model has so many problems.
Salut Zämma
because it's so perfect here! AFK, going to kick out some foreigners and knock down some minarets.
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:24
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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because it's so perfect here! AFK, going to kick out some foreigners and knock down some minarets.

May not be right but you can't say the process wasn't completely Democratic.
Democracy is rubbish.
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:30
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

Ah, PlAnThEaD, if only contributions to each campaign were equal, then we'd see something, but while we wait for those pigs to fly, you're right.
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:32
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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"frustrating alpine democracy" - in other words the US doesn't like countries which have a more democratic system than theirs; and which won't be bullied into following 'orders' like the UK & others.

+1 to the Swiss
of course Switzerland follow orders. Did you not read about the US bank accounts that they had to hand over?
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:32
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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May not be right but you can't say the process wasn't completely Democratic.
Democracy is rubbish.
it truly is the tyranny of the majority
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:34
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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not as headline grabbing as some of the revelations, granted, but there must be some mild discord in Bern
Something tells me many Swiss will wear this as a badge of honor. Perhaps even made into the national motto?

I've never wanted to become Swiss. But if that happens, it might make me reconsider.
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:35
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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It must be very frustating for the US. to see a democracy model which works, when the US. model has so many problems.
Salut Zämma
The US was founded as a republic.
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:36
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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Something tells me many Swiss will wear this as a badge of honor.
I don't think Switzerland cares either way. As one official told Hillary Clinton,
Don't worry, you should hear what we say about you.
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:38
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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It must be very frustating for the US. to see a democracy model which works, when the US. model has so many problems.
Salut Zämma
Yeah, too bad the people's farm mentality pushes Switzerland more and more into isolation though.
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Old 01.12.2010, 13:43
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

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It must be very frustating for the US. to see a democracy model which works, when the US. model has so many problems.
Salut Zämma
Can you explain the problems of the US model?
If the Swiss model works so well, why do only a bit better than half the Swiss vote? About the same percentage as the US.
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Old 01.12.2010, 14:19
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Re: Switzerland slammed by US in Wikileaks revelation as a "frustrating alpine democr

A little explanation.

Peter Coneway went to the right university and was a rich man working at the top in Goldman Sachs when young president George Bush sent him to Bern, maybe Peter helped George out with his election, but Peter Coneway was happy as even ex ambassadors are treated like royalty.

So Peter Coneway is a fairly right wing thinking, clever man who had to convince the Swiss government, that is the incompetant defence minister Bundesrat Samuel Schmidt, that the US was doing the right thing in Iraq. The Bundesrat was also dominated by the stubborn Christoph Blocher.

A summary of political life in Berne at the time from a respected Swiss political magazine.

http://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/200...r-blocher.html

(General Neff was appointed head of the army by Samuel Schmidt despite having a criminal record of violence against his ex wife)

Presumably the Swiss Government, falling over themselves to exagerate their democracy, failed to impress the US ambassador with their incompetance!

Google translation follows:

The perpetrator is always the Blocher

VBS Chief Samuel Schmid with his excuse once before with success guaranteed: the fault of all others, especially the former SVP of Federal Councillor Christoph Blocher.

Samuel Schmid displays three distinguishing characteristics, since he politicized in Bern and the surrounding area: a strong ambition of a mediocre talent and a weak character. The unbridled enthusiasm in their own right has driven him from cushy positions to cushy positions up to the Federal Council. His mediocrity prevented the overtaxed to accomplish in all of his positions, each a work of importance. And the human shortcomings meant that his career is a creeper for a long, intricate and heaviest of all visible back stairs. Such maneuvers have led him to the permanent crisis that is wreaking havoc in the current affair of army chief Roland Nef. The same quibbles, however, save him again.

During the year 2007, Samuel Schmid, the important post of chief of the Department of Defence, Civil Protection and Sports (VBS) and defense minister arrived, the fill almost as central post of Chief of the Army (CdA) too new. The old general, the bulbous warhorse Christophe Keck, he had always felt inferior. It had been spotted in Bern justifiably, the maker and military, the Department and its chief led helpless - and never vice versa. Schmid therefore needed to be able to feel again as a man on the bridge, a weak senior officer. The first and most members of the VBS, the Major General Ulrich Zwygart and Jacob Bowman, from the top or head of the army, as Major General Hans-Ulrich Sole had, so for trivial conversation to terse rejection note.

Nef's father called them "are lit-Toni"

Schmid conjured the lower ranked Brigadier Roland Nef, a then 48-year-old eastern Switzerland with school boys face, from the officers' hats. Even experts who had tried with insider knowledge in the name-dropping amazed. Nef, whose father already was a professional military and rather controversial instructor at the military base Frauenfeld ("de are lit-Toni") was regarded as a pedantic nerd and apparatchik without ideas and without any real military service ID card: the perfect little number that their patrons Schmid daily for the had rapid ascent to thank and obey.

That out of character does not seem too well-established Nef during the election process been prosecuted because of coercion, must make Schmid's decision, the Nobody of his main collaborators, have further strengthened. Nef had a partner who wanted to come off after four months of community in an apartment on the prestigious Zurich mountain from his clutches, persecuted and harassed for weeks. Schmid was aware of this embarrassing and criminal acts, as he made to his preliminary candidates, but the affair was kept under the lid. The Federal Council, the application of the election only shortly before the decisive eighth session June 2007, was not aware and informed him crowned the unknown Nef without discussion.

The illogic of the Schmid-NZZ

The secret past life unworthy of the alleged Sauber's was Schmid's second power means to Nef. And if the appointment as CdA and (rumored as well) a cough from the VBS for the suspension of the criminal proceedings have been decisive, then the General would have depended entirely on his boss. - If not the Sunday paper, out of disgust from the environment of the applicant on the track that Nef misconduct and perfidy Schmid would be made public.

The convicted minister has a tongue, be sent forward with changing messages with fragments of information any Adlaten for media work. The council itself does not, has crept up and alone for his dear Hoforgan, Neue Zürcher Zeitung to speak.

The NZZ has formally legally and politically, has approved its defense. This reads like this: Strictly speaking, it is not legally have been absolutely essential to inform the Federal Council about the background of the candidate into the picture. If it would have been politically desirable but, then, writes the NZZ-Schmid, Schmid not to blame for the sins of omission Schmid, but "the climate of mistrust in the then Federal Council." Because "respect and trust" in the national government "in June 2007 was not available" were, the Schmid-NZZ lectures on, Schmid had his colleagues can not even explain. So ist only pursuant to the Schmid-NZZ, who does informierte nicht verantwortlich Bundesrat for the victims choice and the affair, from he knew nothing.

This lack of logic works politically, because "in June 2007" still sitting in the Bundesrat Christoph Blocher, which always stands as an argument. And shyster Schmid, who has neither a board of directors of bankrupt Haller AG nor accepted as president of the ailing Zealand Bank AG nor as a politician ever is responsible, in office next flit to accomplish nothing and blame everyone else.
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