My fiancee sent me this, and did a synopsis...it is all in Swiss German:

http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?i...9-345e907283bc

Just a reminder that as much as many of we immigrants make fun of and despise the SVP, many do vote for them for a reason. Imagine your family has lived in Zug since the beginning of the federation and you can't even afford to live their and have a family due to inflation caused primarily by foreign business interests?

In the U.S. we call this a type of Gentrification. Obviously we foreigners bring economic benefit to zurich, which is why Zug went from being a poor backwater to one of the wealthiest Cantons, but there are also negative externalities as well.

You see the same things happening in Cornwall in the UK, with rich Londoners buying up the cottages for holiday homes.

They should build more houses.

...funny thing is, SVP is supporting the rich foreigners that are coming here with really interesting tax benefits...really a catch 22...yes it's hard for people in Switzerland especially in Zug...real hard...hard as hell...

I don't know, the way I look at it, is not in an economic sense.

I mean these people will "be okay'.

The issue is that so much Swiss identity is wrapped up in their specific dialect and where the Canton or region of the Canton they come from, I'm sure moving to a more affordable area, for many people, is somewhat traumatic. Moving because of "foreigners" driving up the cost of things, is probably a worse feeling. I can imagine I would not feel much different in that situation. I think it is human nature.

You don't suppose that all those foreigners are moving to Zug because the tax rates there are so much lower than in Zürich (and almost everywhere else in Switzerland), do you? If the cantons were to harmonise tax rates, there wouldn't be anything like the sort of housing pressure we see now in Zug.

The canton of Zug is actively competing for high net worth individuals by offering tax breaks. The economically oppressed indigenous inhabitants of the canton can always vote to increase their taxes. Strangely, I don't see that happening.

Ah what nonsense regarding harmonising taxes and housing pressure (there is SOME minor relationship and thats where it ends ) - have you not seen the situation in the socialist republic of geneva?. Low taxes benefit everyone who works. Sure there are negatives such as the influx of people and the pressure on rents but then again you could have higher taxes and still look like geneva where the middleclass is disappearing and finding it quite tough. High taxes only encourage the well to do to avoid taxes and the poor and middleclass to pay up for the shortfall. Lower (fairer) taxes on the otherhand discourage the wealthy from hiring a legion of lawyers and accountants and instead allows them the opportunity to trade off the expenses of these staff for paying their taxes instead (some take it, some dont).

Why on earth would Zugers/ins vote to increase their own taxes? There is no guarantee that you wouldnt end up with still high rents (although lower than now) and the same problems with the possibility of lower tax revenues affecting everything else including employment.

There is no utopia and all these decisions by the gemeinde have had certain unintended consequences as they always do, but Zug has 2+% unemployment and being employed is what its about. I would still rather have the choice of a low tax area, a high tax area to one where there is a high cost of living AND high taxes. Seeing how Zug has performed over the last few decades and the way they have attracted business, tax revenues and employment i have a lot more confidence in them to trial solutions to these issues than if it were the case in US, UK or OZ today, where they would panic and quickly jump to some other extreme (IMO only ). The influx of foreigners is a '''switzerland''' phenomenon and not just Zug. HOWEVER, Zug is one of the smallest cantons so its not surprising. Mind you i checked out the rents in Baden (AG) the other day, and i certainly would no longer say that they are 'cheap' but there certainly is a tax difference. That has a lot more to do with ABB, Alstrom slash (/) supply than anything else.

Its the cantons and their management that should be given the credit for bringing the economic benefits from their previous 'backwater' scenario. They are the ones that create the environment for people to choose whether they want to live there or not. Foreigners can be a cost as well as a benefit, its how and who you attract that counts (and thats where the cantons come in ).

It is not the foreigners that are driving up the costs, but the Swiss themselves...it's pure capitalism in action...

I agree with this I had a conversation with a native who lives in the area, it's becoming more and more difficult for the locals to survive in Canton Zug. Main reason is the hike in rental costs.

I'm becoming part of the problem, I move there in May to a rural area. Admittedly No 1 reason is the tax drop, then the size of the housing in comparison to Zurich and health insurance halves.

I just don't see how this model long term will help the locals improve their own standard of living. Essentially the town looks nice and the area wonderful, but that doesn't equate to money in the pockets of the cash starved locals.

Erm no they shouldn't build more homes. Cornwall's already a ghost town thanks to all the second home owners who turn up for 2 weeks of the year. Also one of the poorest areas of the UK.

Tax the second home owners that live in a property less than 3 months of the year that will solve it.

Alternatively use the Channel Islands model, x2 housing markets one for locals one for non locals. That soon sorts it out.

Non local at the estate agents. "I'd like to buy a house please, yes prices start at 1m GBP, where would you like to sign..."

How can it be the foreigners in Zug who are putting rents up?

Surely it's the Swiss, who own the buildings, who are putting the rents up?

Zug has sold its soul to the devil. Even the locals agree with this.

The final act of actually putting the rents up maybe done by the swiss / owners of the land / apartment (regardless of nationality) but the cause of course, among other reasons, is foreigners and international companies being able to pay the high monthly rental prices for apartments which are not necessarily worth half as much in my opinion.

I believe that over the next couple of years a lot of expats might start leaving Zug, which may make things a little easier for the locals and new comers but that's based mainly on my own perception of the situation out here.

For now not a lot that can be done, as land is expensive, developments are expensive, and pricing them is always done on current going rates so even building more apartment blocks isn't gonna make it cheaper so I can only see it going up and up unless there is a major outflux of expats and locals which would leave the rental agencies with no option but to reduce the rental prices which consquently would reduce the prices of apartments.

Technically it's all regulated in Zug like elsewhere and after signing a contract last week I was given the option to sue the landlord within the first 3 months if the rent was too high? He laughed so did I, which was a good sign.

There's many tricks to force up rent prices the trouble is the expats don't generally query it. Demolish perfectly good appartments rebuild them then jack up the prices.

I managed to get a 5.5 room apt 135m sq + land + garage in Canton Zug for a very reasonable rate with no deposit. Which is unheard of, it is acheivable.

Now how I achieved this was a huge amount of luck and to talk to the landlord directly (who was a farmer and we got on like a barn on fire) and I had a good agent. I will not touch agency properties with a bargepole.

I was asked to sign the offical Zug rental contract form, which has some interesting clauses/rules in such as "communial stair areas will be cleaned in rotation by residents."

Hmm wheres my mop and bucket?

Possibly - but for good reason. Perhaps it is that the foreigners who have more money than the locals and are demanding higher quality accommodation with better amenities (such as separate laundry facilities).

The flats are renovated and when re-advertised, they are re-advertised at a higher price (or the price goes up for existing tenants who are the forced to move out).

Landlords generally want to make money like anyone else - and as much as possible - they're not a charity.

My guess is what will happen is a bit like Ireland eventually, massive building boom (through developer greed and bad planning,) it will become over saturated with flats at high end rents which nobody wants to live in. It will crash as loads of flats stand empty and the prices will come down.

Although talking to the estate agent about the area this is not the case currently there's still idiots paying way over the odds for certain properties.

If the companies paying who cares? Secondary problem is that if more companies come into Zug then this problem can only get worse. These people need somewhere to live, send their kids to school etc.

This is what I think will happen short term as many try to avoid the new UK/US banking regulations/clampdown. Many reasons but in the short term my guess is still a net increase of population.

My husband and I looked at moving to canton Zug and decided very firmly against it. The increase in rent (>12,000CHF / year) is higher than the tax break (approx 10,000 / year).

We chose Luzern because of this and the fact that it's more central to Basel, Zürich, Zug etc, in case one of us changes jobs.

Puddy

My rent is much lower than comparable properties in ZH, I was looking in many areas, including SZ.

The thing is if you're willing to come slightly outside Zug into a semi rural area the rental rates drop. I'm lazy I drive everywhere so it works for me, but I guess convience is a big part of life to most so they're after properties in Zug itself. Which of course you will get stung for.

Sad story, I guess it explains the strange atmosphere in the town.

Fixed that for you.