I've been mulling over this question for some time the past couple of weeks since I've returned from my vacation in Montréal. I had a very good time (although the weather did not co-operate) and I recommend the city to any adventurous Americans who want to visit something a little out of the ordinary. Still, the question I have is this:

Why does Switzerland work as a multi-lingual nation while Canada doesn't?


Before any Canadians get upset, I'm not saying that Quebec is going to secede. I was in the province when elections were held that booted most of the Parti Quebecois from office. But if the relationship between English and French Canada can be described as a marriage, it seems to be a marriage where the couple stays together for the sake of the kids but sleep in separate beds and only speak to each other at dinner time. Many Quebecois seem to think of themselves as a separate nation within Canada, and I noticed that in many places in Quebec the provincial flag was flying alongside and at equal height to the Canadian flag.

(Granted, I stayed only a week in a suburb of Montréal and Quebec is a huge province---the largest in Canada. My impressions should be taken with a grain of salt.)

Meanwhile, in Switzerland although the language differences between French and German are probably greater than those between French and English, people of the Suisse Romande see themselves as Swiss and they view their German speaking countrymen AS their countrymen. People in Switzerland are worried about the influx of foreigners, but nobody is worried about any cantons seceding.

My theory as to the differences between CH and Canada are:

1. There isn't just "one" or "three" distinct societies in CH---there are 26. The confederation in Switzerland gives the cantons a great deal of leeway, and although the French and Italians are encouraged to learn German, the Romandes and Ticinese don't feel that German is being shoved down their throats.

2. The French and Italian Swiss don't feel that their language is threatened by German the way Quebecois feel French is threatened by English.

3. Although the cantons have a great deal of leeway, there are still rules that everybody has to follow, and nobody cops out by saying "this doesn't apply to our canton because we're Genovois."

4. The Swiss have spent a lot of time and effort in encouraging a sense of Swiss nationhood that transcends linguistic boundaries.

5. Perhaps most imporant of all, many of the cantons joined Switzerland by choice, and even the ones that were conquered had the option to leave CH later on, but voted to stay. (This is why Campeone D'Italia is part of Italy---they voted to remain a part of Lombardi while their neighbours voted to join Switzerland.)

Did I miss anything, or am I wrong on all five counts?

It is a long long story and it is all about history really.

You can find all answers on internet quite easily if you want to learn about it.

But basically it is something to do with the fact that the French lost the battle and let us down and ran away. We were left with the English who tried to change us, our culture, our language and tradition.

The Quebecois fought back and the aversion against the religion has also a connection to the whole story.

I am very very proud to be Quebecoise. I am Quebecoise first and after Canadian. But I would never want to have Quebec becoming independant or seperated of Canada.

When you live next to a country who speaks your language (Switzerland - Germany - France - Italy) you don't necessary feel insecure of what will happen to your language.

But when you are only 8 millions of french in the whole North America, you have to do something about it if you want to keep your language, culture and tradition.

Nobody is like us and yes, we are special and different. And this has to be protected.

Mes deux cennes... (my two cents)

For starters, Canada is a commonwealth nations with Queen Elizabeth as its head. Can you tell me how does that represent The québecois? each time a quebecois looks at his Canada passport, it reads: her majesty bla bla and they see that Royal coat of arms on the front page, they just want to bite themselves.

Ticinese & Romandie were never subjected to tyranny and ridicule by the other Swiss who were loyal to the British monarch with whom they have nothing in common.

Quebec lies in an Anglophone continent that is dominant. CH is surrounded by French Italian Slovenian etc

Refer back to the history of Quebec.

History of Quebec again.

Where did you read that?? but true, Quebec never voted to join Canada.

1). It is incorrect to say that Ticinese are encouraged to learn German. They aren't.

Personally, I think that the lame German speakers should get off their asses and learn Italian.

You don't live in Ticino, do you?

You don't know much about swiss history, do you?

Nobody voted on it.

Tom

In 1981 .I was hoping the quebecers win the referendum .And Canada would becomes a true CANADA

No, I don't live in Ticino. But I did assume that when it came time for students in Ticino to study foreign languages, German would be required. If that is not the case, thank you for correcting me.


I don't know a lot about Swiss history, but Wikipedia gave the impression that in 1798 Ticino chose to become part of the Helvetic Republic. I assumed that was an election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campione_D%27Italia

The one I remember is the sovreignty referendum in 1995 during the Clinton administration, but you are referring to an earlier one in the early '80s.

Keeping these votes in mind, I really shouldn't have written that Quebec hasn't had a choice about staying in Canada. But it would have been easier for the Romande cantons or Ticino to leave Switzerland if they really wanted to. Canada has fought like hell to keep Quebec and has over and over pleaded with them to stay. I'm not sure if the rest of Switzerland would do the same.

Well, you can't compare apples to oranges. Or in this case, Canada to Switzerland.

Basically, if you get two linguistic groups living side-by side, one will always be precariously dominant, and the other will be fighting against the dominant language. The same can be said for religious and cultural differences, if there are two fighting each other, it won't work. Also, these linguistic groups in Switzerland has has hundreds of years to learn to co-exist- Canada's bilingualism was won in the 7years war with the horrific Plains of Abraham and seige of Quebec by the British.

Furthermore and more concretely, Quebec has not signed onto our constitution and charter of rights and freedoms, therefore, Quebec does not recognize English as an official language. Quebec itself is not bi-lingual in any way- there are no English signs at train stations, no English signwork, even in major cities like Quebec City and Montreal, many of the people working in the public sector do not speak English. This is simply not the case in Switzerland, all the languages in Switzerland are given respect and are at least important signs are posted in 2-4 languages!

Although Canada has two official languages on a federal level, Quebec does not recognize English as an official language. New Brunswick is the only province that recognizes both French and English officially and is therefore the only bi-lingual province in Canada, and is teeny-tiny both in size and population, basically the equivalent to Appenzell Innerhoden.

However, if you have multiple linguistic groups, given equal legal rights, they tend to flourish, same can be said for cultural and religious differences (see: Multiculturalism in Canada).

Hope this helps solve that internal conflict for you and had you learn a bit more about Canadian history and culture, which is not as simplistic as you think.

Also, Quebec will not secede. They just completely changed the political climate of Canada by almost completely obliterating the Bloc Quebecois on the federal level on the May 2nd election. Young Quebecois that I know, do not know anyone their age who is a separatist.

Kids usually know not what's best for them ;-)

What real political power does the queen have over Canada?

Huge generation gap in Québec:
The younger ones never had any problem in real life speaking and writing french, english has found its place as cool second language and the province is linguistically stable now. English Canada managed to become a real democracy also in the cultural area.
The older ones have memory: they remember that the only reason why it is all nice now is that they bugged Ottawa big time. They remember the price of what is now a peaceful pleasant result. They know that Quebec's cultural and linguistic stability is due only to their fight and not one bit to Ottawa. Memory is a good thing: the cultural imperialism failed only because the older generation fought back, not because Ottawa stopped it... they never stopped anything and never wanted to.

Short version: English speaking Canada IS the colonial power seen from Québec, with an English Queen at the top. Québec is colonized facing two solution: a culturally acceptable union to go beyond colony-relationships or separation. It looks like the first path is the one right now... as long as Ottawa is up for it.

EDIT: By the way, did Québec finally signed the constitution of 1982? Is there now a version of the text in French? Last time I asked, the answer was twice no, but things change over time... don't they?

My interpretation: Québec is asking the question whether it is possible to be a happy ex-colony on the basis of a respectful ex-colonial power from the other side. It is more an internal debate in English Canada whether they all agree to break with bad old habits or not. They have to sort that out among themselves, not in the Québecois' hand.
No trace of all that in Switzerland, no ex-colonial history, no intern imperialism on the political level, just some real life practicalities, some of them quite explosive (remember Jura? well... it is not over in Jura bernois, follow up in the news in the coming years, Moutier already announced a referendum).

But then again, I only know the Québecois side closely and personally, I may totally misunderstand the English-Canadians. Feel free to enlighten me.

Same in Switzerland isn't it? I thought with the exception of the bilingual cantons of FR, BE, GR and VS others don't recognise more than one language at cantonal level.

What real political power does she have over the UK? it's just symbolic... and what's not symbolic about a country's emblem, belongingness passport currency etc...

My view as an anglophone Canadian:

I never learned about the history of Québec until I went to university, and only then because I studied historÿ and it was a requirement. My point is that I don't believe English-speaking Canadians, at least of my generation, are properly educated about the history of Canada and Québec. It shouldn't take a history specialization at uni to get this necessary information. I say necessary because there are a lot of misunderstandings about Québec among English Canadians. Growing up, I had heard a lot of negative stereotypes about the Québecois, such as that they were really unfriendly to anglophone Canadians and that they wanted to be better than the rest of Canada.

Even at school, where I was unusual in that I studied French all the way through university, I never once had a native-speaker teacher, nor do I remember learning anything about Québec's language (continental French was taught instead) and culture. Only when I went to Québec to study French one summer did I learn something, and it was really eye-opening. Also the stereotypes were of course smashed. I lived with a family in Chicoutimi and it was fantastic. I've always said if I go back to Canada, I'll want to live in Québec because I loved the culture and the language so much. My father, who went to school before the policy of multiculturalism was instated, has limited French, but a lot of his graphic design clients are in Québec and they are really cool with the broken way he writes and speaks French.

One more thing is that I went to school with a lot of people whose parents had grown up in Montréal and who left in the 70s when the language policy became really strict in favour of French. None of the parents spoke French, which I had always found bizarre until I went to uni and learned about how a lot of the English speakers had lived separate lives in their own neighbourhoods for generations.

I don't think it's entirely symbolic
http://www.republic.org.uk/What%20we...tion/index.php

Better term would be English Speaking Canadian and or French Speaking Canadian .There are wide range of cultural different under the French Speaking and or the English Speaking Canadians

To your question if Quebec singed the constitution the answer is
No

I only know I shouldn't make fun of their language.

You're right, I wasn't clear enough here.

All the provinces and territories have signed onto our Constitution, this means that every province except Quebec recognizes that both French and English languages are the official languages of the country. Although French is not an official language of 8/10 provinces, it is still recognized in our constitution. Since Quebec did not sign the constitution, Quebec does not recognize the English language whatsoever.

It's comparing apples to oranges, I really don't know why Quebec within Canada is being compared to Switzerland at all, you simple can't compare them (as I explained in my last post).

Well.... here, there is no way to go around the list of official languages in the canton either. Try talking German in Delémont, you'll need a tough skin to survive it.
German in Jura, English in Québec... I don't see that much difference.

I'm again not making myself clear.

Do Cantons recognize the right of other languages to exist in the rest of the country? Are they actively opposed to the rights of other languages?

By not signing the constitution, Quebec does not recognize the right of other Canadians to speak English elsewhere in the country, not just in Quebec.