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  #2361  
Old 18.02.2014, 08:52
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I may confuse people in who I groan (well, I rarely groan because I value all contributions) and who I thank. I try to keep an open mind.
I have a few comments about the research, my country is more intelligent than yours thing.


1. In at least 2 areas of research- Electronic and Infertility Iran leads.
2. Iran is supposedly cut-off by sanctions, yet Iranian Universities still rank highly, there are no foreign lecturers. So Switzerland could, hypothetically, achieve the same status as Iran from homegrown scientists.
3. Most of the foremost research institutions in the world have Iranian scientists, they don't have that many Swiss.
4. During the 1979 revolution letters of thanks were sent to the Iranian Govt., for the brain-drain from Iran. When the host countries curtailed visas for Iranian establishments, those establishments claimed that this would seriously affect the efficacy of their programs. If the Swiss exchange research programs are affected by the rules who will suffer more; Switzerland ? Are the Swiss replaceable?


So, now I have two very naive questions:


Will this vote evoke retaliatory gestures- or sanctions against Switzerland?


What is there to stop a new referendum, in favor of promoting immigration (from any country, not just EU) that helps achieve Swiss goals in Science, Industry, and Economics?


Finally hats of to the guy from Zimbabwe for saying that Zimbabwe doesn't owe him or his family anything.
I believe no sanctions will be applied, unless Switzerland starts to step into the rights of EU people, just the application of the guillotine clause, stopping every other benefit Switzerland had from the bilateral in the next 6 months.
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  #2362  
Old 18.02.2014, 08:55
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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So many of us can complain bitterly about Swiss immigration policies, but the people feel really sorry for are the patriotic Swiss, who are being totally manipulated and hurt by SVP interests.

Yeah: these are people that
love their country and think things through so that the country can benefit the most.

Most of the people that talk big do not really love their country, they just want to talk big to express some frustration.
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  #2363  
Old 18.02.2014, 08:56
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Given their political history anf their geographic location(s), Romania and Bulgaria are not up to speed in terms of economics, infrastructure and political development.

Given that they are fully fledged EU members I do not think it is appropriate to be referring to people coming to Western / Central Europe looking to better themselves as "Welfare Tourists". There will always be an ebb and flow until all of Europe's cylinders are firing.

I will indeed take my groan back.

Have you read Dumas' "Three Musketeers" - Unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno?
I never did refer to all East Europeans as welfare tourists and I do support FMOP for all EU countries. It can't be denied however that it does occur that people fly in once a month to sign on the dole or that gypsy families come to some western countries specifically to get welfare benefits. Obviously this represents a small minority of east europeans but the bad publicity these people generate is now putting the principle of free movement for all europeans in jeopardy.
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  #2364  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:00
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Switzerland-freedom of movement is only for carrots and not for people. Quote
Manuel Barroso.You're a hero!!
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  #2365  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:02
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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In EU, EU people can vote for the parliament, wherever they are.
Yes, but Swiss in the EU get no vote other than in Swiss voting.

In the US, Canada, and pretty much everywhere else on the planet, only citizens can vote.

Tom
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  #2366  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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With the free movement of people came the same mentality of fleecing the state as is apparent all over Southern Europe, and that IS a big deal, not just a flea on the back of an elephant as you so kindly stated.
Are you saying that construction workers with work related injuries should not be entitled to benefits?
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  #2367  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I never did refer to all East Europeans as welfare tourists and I do support FMOP for all EU countries. It can't be denied however that it does occur that people fly in once a month to sign on the dole or that gypsy families come to some western countries specifically to get welfare benefits. Obviously this represents a small minority of east europeans but the bad publicity these people generate is now putting the principle of free movement for all europeans in jeopardy.
Will not happen for ever, let's get over it.

From my reading of several European newspapers, steps are being taken to stop these parasites° anyway.

° People who harm the common good and contribute nothing.
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  #2368  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

The building industry exploits the labour market from other countries-employ them in summer at minimum wages and dump them in winter on the unemployment benefits.
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I believe no sanctions will be applied, unless Switzerland starts to step into the rights of EU people, just the application of the guillotine clause, stopping every other benefit Switzerland had from the bilateral in the next 6 months.
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  #2369  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:06
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I may confuse people in who I groan (well, I rarely groan because I value all contributions) and who I thank. I try to keep an open mind.
I have a few comments about the research, 'my country is more intelligent than yours' thing.


1. In at least 2 areas of research- Electronic and Infertility Iran leads.
2. Iran is supposedly cut-off by sanctions, yet Iranian Universities still rank highly, there are no foreign lecturers. So Switzerland could, hypothetically, achieve the same status as Iran from homegrown scientists.
3. Most of the foremost research institutions in the world have Iranian scientists, they don't have that many Swiss.
4. During the 1979 revolution letters of thanks were sent to the Iranian Govt., for the brain-drain from Iran. When the host countries curtailed visas for Iranian establishments, those establishments claimed that this would seriously affect the efficacy of their programs. If the Swiss exchange research programs are affected by the rules who will suffer more; Switzerland ? Are the Swiss replaceable?


So, now I have two very naive questions:


Will this vote evoke retaliatory gestures- or sanctions against Switzerland?


What is there to stop a new referendum, in favor of promoting immigration (from any country, not just EU) that helps achieve Swiss goals in Science, Industry, and Economics?


Finally hats of to the guy from Zimbabwe for saying that Zimbabwe doesn't owe him or his family anything.
My basis for writing that "Switzerland is smaller but smarter than the EU" is much more profound than educational gymnastics. US has the most universities in the Top 20 but has plenty of educated fools.
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  #2370  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Yes, but Swiss in the EU get no vote other than in Swiss voting.

In the US, Canada, and pretty much everywhere else on the planet, only citizens can vote.

Tom
Which, incidentally may be the reason why the road to citizenship is so much more difficult in CH than in ' In the US, Canada, and pretty much everywhere else on the planet' Imagine that anyone born in CH got the right to citizenship and to vote!
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  #2371  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:25
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

its difficult because of swiss burocracy
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Which, incidentally may be the reason why the road to citizenship is so much more difficult in CH than in ' In the US, Canada, and pretty much everywhere else on the planet' Imagine that anyone born in CH got the right to citizenship and to vote!
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  #2372  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:28
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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My basis for writing that "Switzerland is smaller but smarter than the EU" is much more profound than educational gymnastics. US has the most universities in the Top 20 but has plenty of educated fools.

I thought that you usually argue that the Swiss standard of education is much higher than in the US, yet Switzerland relies on imported intelligentsia?


To me, throwing around baseless allegations. e.g. 'we're educated you're not, you're fools we're not' indicates a distinct lack of 'something' call it intelligence, education, culture; whatever you like- I'll let you choose but it may take more than 'mental turnen'.


Educational gymnastics indeed- is that the new Swinglish buzzphrase?
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  #2373  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:33
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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My basis for writing that "Switzerland is smaller but smarter than the EU" is much more profound than educational gymnastics. US has the most universities in the Top 20 but has plenty of educated fools.
"Wisdom is knowing what you know as well as what you dont know."

Swiss seem to excel at the first one, but struggle with the second.
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  #2374  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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its difficult because of swiss burocracy

Bureaus exist for a reason= unless they are Burocrazy. It's a deliberate policy, and skews all kinds of statistics. If CH was truly democratic, it would allow those born in the country to take on the nationality of their birth.
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  #2375  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:39
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I thought that you usually argue that the Swiss standard of education is much higher than in the US, yet Switzerland relies on imported intelligentsia?


To me, throwing around baseless allegations. e.g. 'we're educated you're not, you're fools we're not' indicates a distinct lack of 'something' call it intelligence, education, culture; whatever you like- I'll let you choose but it may take more than 'mental turnen'.


Educational gymnastics indeed- is that the new Swinglish buzzphrase?
Your reply is bullsh%$t...and no I don't usually argue your made-up allegations. Most universities employ and invite foreign professors. It's not unusual.

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"Wisdom is knowing what you know as well as what you dont know."

Swiss seem to excel at the first one, but struggle with the second.
You have a right to your opinion...
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  #2376  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:44
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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EU-8 scoring better than PIGS I wonder what the position is and how much does he pay…
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the same salary a Swiss would expect no doubt....that's what the flankierende Massnahmen are about
Senior Network Engineer for a Cisco partner, salary depends on the skills of course
I am getting (as far as I know) more than any of my Swiss colleagues on the same level as me, so no search for cheap workforce here (we have a Hungarian colleague, during his interview more than one year ago he asked for much less than the "standard" for this position was, so they hired him for this - he was satisfied with the salary - and then raised it to the "normal" after 3 months when they found out that he is really useful and skilled)
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  #2377  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:51
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Your reply is bullsh%$t...and no I don't usually argue your made-up allegations. Most universities employ and invite foreign professors. It's not unusual.

You have a right to your opinion...

You write that I make up allegations?


Is anyone else laughing their little Swiss sockchen's off right now?


Did Prosperity Joy just do a Rumplestilzchen-inversion-type meltdown?


Schlafguet!
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  #2378  
Old 18.02.2014, 09:54
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You write that I make up allegations?


Is anyone else laughing their little Swiss sockchen's off right now?


Did Prosperity Joy just do a Rumplestilzchen-inversion-type meltdown?


Schlafguet!
You're annoying at best....
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  #2379  
Old 18.02.2014, 11:13
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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You're annoying at best....
"Pot, This is Kettle...Colour check, over..."
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  #2380  
Old 18.02.2014, 12:09
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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"Pot, This is Kettle...Colour check, over..."
Roger...
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