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  #3221  
Old 23.01.2016, 19:39
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Okay.... You may actually be on to something.... I think you might have finally discovered something.... google "Europscepticism" to unlock this secret knowledge.
Euro-pscepticism: it must be related with stipsi, given the assonance. As we say in Italy, in my region, remember that "chi non caga muore gonfio" (who does not give a shit dies inflated.).

S.
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  #3222  
Old 23.01.2016, 20:36
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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All of them, they are linked together.
it will bring us back to the stone age... They can't be serious can it? (please say no)
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  #3223  
Old 23.01.2016, 20:39
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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it will bring us back to the stone age... They can't be serious can it? (please say no)

My point was that this (all of the bilaterals) was the SVP objective; they are serious but will they have success? I hope not!
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Old 23.01.2016, 20:44
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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it will bring us back to the stone age... They can't be serious can it? (please say no)
Personally, I preferred life in Switzerland before the bilaterals.

Tom
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  #3225  
Old 23.01.2016, 20:50
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Personally, I preferred life in Switzerland before the bilaterals.
I'm surprised you didn't preferred life before the transalpine campaigns in 1403.
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  #3226  
Old 23.01.2016, 20:55
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Personally, I preferred life in Switzerland before the bilaterals.

Tom
difficult to believe that in terms of the economy. I think it opened Switzerland to the European market for goods, services and also people. what do you think was better in those days?
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  #3227  
Old 23.01.2016, 20:57
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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My point was that this (all of the bilaterals) was the SVP objective; they are serious but will they have success? I hope not!
where did you get this from? they can't be that ignorant can they
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  #3228  
Old 23.01.2016, 21:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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where did you get this from? they can't be that ignorant can they
Do a search on Blocher and EU bilaterals, for example, http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ea88a...#axzz3xoZnlLKW
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  #3229  
Old 23.01.2016, 21:05
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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where did you get this from? they can't be that ignorant can they
oh they can - read this thread from the start
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  #3230  
Old 24.01.2016, 00:10
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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where did you get this from? they can't be that ignorant can they

They aren't ignorant, or stupid, they simply selecting the option that would give them more power.
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Old 24.01.2016, 09:51
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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difficult to believe that in terms of the economy. I think it opened Switzerland to the European market for goods, services and also people. what do you think was better in those days?
Everything.

Tom
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  #3232  
Old 24.01.2016, 11:50
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

To be rather honest, I also hope that the bilaterals fall, but because being a failed project it is way to expensive to reinitiate talks of any kind concerning that.
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  #3233  
Old 24.01.2016, 12:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Would you both care to elaborate a bit as to the reasons. Hard to have any kind of debate on 1 liners without any explanations. Why?
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  #3234  
Old 24.01.2016, 14:05
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Everyone is realizing the incompetence of the EU, even EU leaders themselves. I don't hear anyone in their right minds calling for closer integration with the EU, except some irrelevant diehards on this thread, and Germans.

Switzerland should just unilaterally break off the bilaterals, and if the mafia in Brussels want to re-open it, then deal as adults. The idea that Switzerland should kowtow to everything Brussels wants is for the weak willed and weak minded.

The EU is crumbling, they know it and they don't have a solution to fix it. Many have give it a couple of months to avert it, but there is no agreement on a solution nor on the nature of the problem. Which means it will not be addressed.
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  #3235  
Old 24.01.2016, 14:22
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Everyone is realizing the incompetence of the EU, even EU leaders themselves. I don't hear anyone in their right minds calling for closer integration with the EU, except some irrelevant diehards on this thread, and Germans.
Oh I doubt the PIIGS especially want the EU to fail... especially seeing as how much Greek tax Greeks actually pay.... which is the same problem as the whole refugee question really... without adequate punishments you have no way of controlling wayward states (people in the case of refugees).

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Switzerland should just unilaterally break off the bilaterals, and if the mafia in Brussels want to re-open it, then deal as adults. The idea that Switzerland should kowtow to everything Brussels wants is for the weak willed and weak minded.

The EU is crumbling, they know it and they don't have a solution to fix it. Many have give it a couple of months to avert it, but there is no agreement on a solution nor on the nature of the problem. Which means it will not be addressed.
There is no way Brussels is going to play hardball with any rich state - the EU needs all the help it can from relatively well run countries... Donald Trump - for all his daftness only has to point his finger over at Germany and say "For all their pompous high-mindedness look at that place falling apart" - and worse - he'll be right.
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  #3236  
Old 24.01.2016, 14:23
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Would you both care to elaborate a bit as to the reasons. Hard to have any kind of debate on 1 liners without any explanations. Why?
Would you care to elaborate on how to pay for this unlimited welfare state you seem to think is a universal human right ? I never hear too much from your corner when it comes to generating resources only spending them.
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  #3237  
Old 24.01.2016, 15:18
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Would you both care to elaborate a bit as to the reasons. Hard to have any kind of debate on 1 liners without any explanations. Why?

I am European, pro EU, as you may know I actually did my career thanks to the EU and I will continue on the path with the EU actually:

So, why let the bilaterals should fall:

The bilateral agreements are something like a pre-matrimonial agreement: you are not that sure it will last, so let's do a contract, I will keep the house, you can keep the bank account.

It is clear that Switzerland does not want, at the moment, or maybe never, join any sort of agreement with anyone. To be rather precise: it is normal, it is a country whose culture is based on control.

Spending time with agreements will always lead to situations like this one. Well the state is not committed to the EU, it wants some advantages, and none of the perks.

So, first mistake of whoever was there at that time: let's do bilateral agreements.

And that killed the discussion up to now, in which there are problems. When there are problems and the person is not committed, then it comes the divorce.

So, in other terms: fu-- the bilateral agreements. They are an obstacle to two very clear situations.

1. Switzerland stay on its own
2. Switzerland joins.

Either ways are fine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.
Switzerland stays on its own? Good, Let Switzerland pay taxes to participate everything it may want to participate with the EU, like for example H2020, and then let's them make pay their own part too.

Like the very belowed Billag concept: you pay for everything, participation and service, at the end you get the priviledge to have an international framework like H2020 and do you contribution for science, plus you may also get some benefits from research.

It is a country that understands, by definition, that everything has a price and, if interested, it will pay, if not, it will not pay, but also won't get any of the benefits.

2.
Then it is a member, everybody is equal, cool bro a new state, let's move on and build something better.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When you have to try and build something, whatever this may be, you gotta focus on people or groups of people that are willing to cooperate in the building of the project, you gotta create something solid that has to last, or it is a waste of time. Focusing all these energies on Switzerland, or UK, or anyone that wants to play their own game where the very idea of the game is build a state of citizens that share common ground and common values is, by the very definition a contradiction.


This applies even if the EU falls and has to be recreated from scratch. It is always possible to build something solid and then move on. The problems start to come when you introduce these shitty half measures that lead nowhere at all and give half definition and unclear situations.
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  #3238  
Old 24.01.2016, 15:33
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Everyone is realizing the incompetence of the EU, even EU leaders themselves. I don't hear anyone in their right minds calling for closer integration with the EU, except some irrelevant diehards on this thread, and Germans.

Switzerland should just unilaterally break off the bilaterals, and if the mafia in Brussels want to re-open it, then deal as adults. The idea that Switzerland should kowtow to everything Brussels wants is for the weak willed and weak minded.

The EU is crumbling, they know it and they don't have a solution to fix it. Many have give it a couple of months to avert it, but there is no agreement on a solution nor on the nature of the problem. Which means it will not be addressed.
For example, why do I have to try to convince people like Phos, in general terms, he sees Bruxelles as Mafia and he is constantly upset with the EU. His words above, by the way.

What would come out of it? It is like trying to lift heavyweight with the instructor telling you in the ear "you cannot do it, uhuhuhuh, you cannot do it, uhuhuh"

My personal experience: when one cuts out uncollaborative, or for any reason incapacitated to collaborate people, then things do go better. But even for the uncollaborative people it is better.

You go your way, at a certain point you eventually compete. For sure a respectful competition is better than a poisoned collaboration.

Set a price, stick to it, and move on doing business.
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  #3239  
Old 24.01.2016, 15:41
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

Where? Quotes please!?! (or ...gtfo as you say so well).

Au contraire- Neuchâtel has a real problem with social help and unemployment- and the last thing business people need, is a drop in exports and an increase in the above. That is not a 'socialist' argument, but a commonsensical and economically sound principle, and very much part of the traditional right (eg PLR/FDP).

Perhaps very different in Zurich banking circles- but certainly here in the heart of high end manufacturing, it is a real issue. We just cannot afford for social help and unemployment to rise- at all. And bilaterals are very much part of the equation- and therefore the Expulsion Inititiative too- partly because of the injustice of not allowing the Judges to assess the situation but only to press on the expulsion button- but truly also partly for the above. This is clear from Party recommendation, party discussions and discussions with all the local business people including their CEOs- whom I meet regularly due to many activities.
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  #3240  
Old 24.01.2016, 16:23
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Everyone is realizing the incompetence of the EU, even EU leaders themselves. I don't hear anyone in their right minds calling for closer integration with the EU, except some irrelevant diehards on this thread, and Germans.

Switzerland should just unilaterally break off the bilaterals, and if the mafia in Brussels want to re-open it, then deal as adults. The idea that Switzerland should kowtow to everything Brussels wants is for the weak willed and weak minded.

The EU is crumbling, they know it and they don't have a solution to fix it. Many have give it a couple of months to avert it, but there is no agreement on a solution nor on the nature of the problem. Which means it will not be addressed.

About "Switzerland should just unilaterally break off the bilaterals"
"The EU is crumbling"


So there goes Switzerland's biggest export market
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