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  #1181  
Old 10.02.2014, 14:57
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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If you cant read the german then look at the pictures

http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/...hronologie-so-


fremdenfeindlich-ist-die-schweiz_aid_1067059.html



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10:02 Uhr

Die Schweiz als Vorbild

von Ralph Schindler
Eine großartige Entscheidung zu der man den Schweizern nur gratulieren kann. Ich würde mir wünschen das es in Deutschland auch echte demokratische Entscheidungen im Rahmen von Volksabstimmungen geben würde, aber dafür sind unsere Politiker offensichtlich zu feige. Die Entscheidungen könnten ja anders ausfallen, als in ihren realitätsfremden Wunschvorstellungen. Die sogenannte multi-kulturelle Bereicherung (verbaler Dünnschiss linker autonomer Spinner) kann man im Moment sehr gut an den völlig verwahrlosten Massenunterkünften rumänischer und bulgarischer Armutsflüchtlinge in vielen Großstädten erkennen. Kein Wunder das die Heimatländern froh sind wenn diese Armutsflüchtlinge in die Sozialsysteme andere Staaten einwandern, dann sind sie diese widerlichen Schmarotzer wenigstens los. Antwort


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  #1182  
Old 10.02.2014, 14:58
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I don't think that any EU country would vote to limit immigration from other EU states.
Are you just trying to be funny? Finland, a tiny little country with only 5 or so million people and only ~3% or so of that being non-finns, has a boatload of anti-immigration sentiment witnessed by the rise of Timo Soini and his party which is similar to the SVP. Currently, the language barrier (and the difficulty of the Finnish language) and the high bar to getting work tends to suffice in discouraging immigration along with the challenging climate, but those there are still battling camps of those who want to abolish the free movement, particularly in a depressed economy and those who see the longer term benefits to immigration in a zero/negative native population growth.
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  #1183  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Are you just trying to be funny? Finland, a tiny little country with only 5 or so million people and only ~3% or so of that being non-finns, has a boatload of anti-immigration sentiment witnessed by the rise of Timo Soini and his party which is similar to the SVP. Currently, the language barrier (and the difficulty of the Finnish language) and the high bar to getting work tends to suffice in discouraging immigration along with the challenging climate, but those there are still battling camps of those who want to abolish the free movement, particularly in a depressed economy and those who see the longer term benefits to immigration in a zero/negative native population growth.
No, I'm being serious. Why should EU members want to limit the arrival of citizens from other EU countries? (Ok, I understand that many people don't like gypsies but just don't give them welfare and they won't come)
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  #1184  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I asked you before and I'm asking you again: where are you getting this info? What are you basing your assumption on?

The only logical conclusion I could come to (based on the facts of the Swiss-EU relationship, political and economic considerations), is that there is a fairly low chance that something like that would happen. It would be a very risky move for both the Swiss government and population, with very clear downsides and fairly few and murky upsides.
I am basing my assumptions on the wording of the constitutional amendment:

Le droit au séjour durable, au regroupement familial et aux prestations sociales peut être limité.

Of course, this sentence has peut être, rather than doit être. Still, the possibility for making draconian changes is there, although I am not claiming that this will happen, with an authoritative voice. That's point of using the word assumption.
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  #1185  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:27
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Why should EU members want to limit the arrival of citizens from other EU countries?
Same reason NAFTA members do?

Tom
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  #1186  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:32
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Same reason NAFTA members do?

Tom
I think the discussion is a bit naif: of course everyone would like to do things for its own best. The point is always about consequences. For instance, you can't claim one thing and denying the other: either you take the whole package or nothing. Take Germany. Sure, they would like to avoid Gypsy and people who come there to get the social security. BUT they're profiting from the EURO made "weaker" than the Deutsche Mark would be by the southern countries AND they need professional people which they get "for free" right now from the other countries. Simple as that. Should they go for the populist path they'd lose also the other advantages. The same should be for Switzerland.

The situation should be analysed in the full context and not only by looking at it from one side. And, no offense, I guess that 80% of people who voted JA do not have the instruments for this type of analysis.
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  #1187  
Old 10.02.2014, 15:44
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Leser-Kommentare (99)
10:02 Uhr

Die Schweiz als Vorbild

von Ralph Schindler
Eine großartige Entscheidung zu der man den Schweizern nur gratulieren kann. Ich würde mir wünschen das es in Deutschland auch echte demokratische Entscheidungen im Rahmen von Volksabstimmungen geben würde, aber dafür sind unsere Politiker offensichtlich zu feige. Die Entscheidungen könnten ja anders ausfallen, als in ihren realitätsfremden Wunschvorstellungen. Die sogenannte multi-kulturelle Bereicherung (verbaler Dünnschiss linker autonomer Spinner) kann man im Moment sehr gut an den völlig verwahrlosten Massenunterkünften rumänischer und bulgarischer Armutsflüchtlinge in vielen Großstädten erkennen. Kein Wunder das die Heimatländern froh sind wenn diese Armutsflüchtlinge in die Sozialsysteme andere Staaten einwandern, dann sind sie diese widerlichen Schmarotzer wenigstens los. Antwort


I can read german
Congratulations. Here's the Google-Translated English for those that can't. It's a reader comment:

"Switzerland as a model
by Ralph Schindler
A great decision to which one can only congratulate the Swiss. I would hope that there would be in Germany also genuine democratic decisions in the context of referendums, but our politicians are obviously too cowardly. The decisions could indeed turn out differently than in their unrealistic desires. The so-called multi-cultural enrichment (verbal Dünnschiss left autonomous Spinner) you can very well see from the completely neglected mass accommodation Romanian and Bulgarian refugees poverty in many cities at the moment. No wonder the home countries are glad when this poverty refugees to immigrate to the social systems of other countries, then they are those disgusting parasites at least going on."
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  #1188  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:00
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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...Even in just the last decade I've seen an increasing percentage of people, especially in Suisse Romande, living a separate existence from the Suisse - English is heard more & more everywhere...
I'm sorry, but this is absolute nonsense. yes, in the French-speaking part of the country you will find rather large groups living a "separate existence", i.e. grilling out in the same lakeside park as "the Suisse" but not doing so with "the Suisse", but the odds of any of those large groups speaking anything that even closely resembles proper English are extremely remote. I can count on one hand the number of times I encountered proper English anywhere in Switzerland, which is considerably less than anywhere else in central Europe, and nearly every single one of those occassions involved tourists rather than residents.
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  #1189  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

http://i.imgur.com/uR2UTwF.png
irrational fear? Or what other explanation is there for the cantons scoring low in immigration and high in yes votes...
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  #1190  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:06
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Congratulations. Here's the Google-Translated English for those that can't. It's a reader comment:

"Switzerland as a model
by Ralph Schindler
A great decision to which one can only congratulate the Swiss. I would hope that there would be in Germany also genuine democratic decisions in the context of referendums, but our politicians are obviously too cowardly. The decisions could indeed turn out differently than in their unrealistic desires. The so-called multi-cultural enrichment (verbal Dünnschiss left autonomous Spinner) you can very well see from the completely neglected mass accommodation Romanian and Bulgarian refugees poverty in many cities at the moment. No wonder the home countries are glad when this poverty refugees to immigrate to the social systems of other countries, then they are those disgusting parasites at least going on."
Spinner can mean mad / unbalanced etc. Dünschiss ist shite / diarrhoea.


Unfortunately, in Germany there are not a few people who write such comments. in fact, they make a career of same.
It is not known (amongst other things) as the land of Nörgler for nothing.

Nörgler = grouser / complainer / detractor.
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  #1191  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:08
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

PS: really mad at the results, because now I might not be able to study abroad at all and I just applied for this year I don't know what will happen to all the foreign students in Switzerland either!
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  #1192  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:08
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I think the discussion is a bit naif: of course everyone would like to do things for its own best. The point is always about consequences. For instance, you can't claim one thing and denying the other: either you take the whole package or nothing. Take Germany. Sure, they would like to avoid Gypsy and people who come there to get the social security. BUT they're profiting from the EURO made "weaker" than the Deutsche Mark would be by the southern countries AND they need professional people which they get "for free" right now from the other countries. Simple as that. Should they go for the populist path they'd lose also the other advantages. The same should be for Switzerland.

The situation should be analysed in the full context and not only by looking at it from one side. And, no offense, I guess that 80% of people who voted JA do not have the instruments for this type of analysis.
There is nothing to analyse. Over 80'000+ People every year (and still going up). Switzerland has almost the same percental population growth like India (!!). No other European country is even near that number. (11x more than germany)
Its just insane and its destroying wealth everyday. Every single social problem in our country (any basically in the rest of the word) is not a Problem by itself but a symptom of overpopulation.

only 14% of all swiss are going to the university (43% in Germany by the way....ridiculous), the swiss median salary is around 5800.
Now go and try to find a job against the horde of cheap studied Europeans and after that pay a rent of 2500.- with your 5k salery.
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  #1193  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:12
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Another thing to keep in mind. According to my understanding, non-EU people have to wait for 10 years before they are eligible to apply for permit C. The waiting period for the EU nationals is currently 5 years, but this may change, if they are put in the same category as the non-EU ones. I hope this will not happen.
Not exactly. 5 years rule applies to EU-17 countries (a.k.a. old-EU, - member states that joined before 2004 enlargement). Then there is EU-8 which still has 10 years rule (countries that joined EU in 2004). Not sure what rule applies to EU-2 (Bulgaria + Romania) and Croatia... probably same as to EU-8.
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  #1194  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:12
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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PS: really mad at the results, because now I might not be able to study abroad at all and I just applied for this year I don't know what will happen to all the foreign students in Switzerland either!
....

try to study the Newspaper first, maybe you find out what this vote was about.
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Old 10.02.2014, 16:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Schengen is related to exports? Really?
Well generally speaking it is not. But as far as I know Schengen and internal market regulations were negotiated and signed as a single accord by Switzerland and EU so in this specific case you may say it's the same
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  #1196  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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No, I'm being serious. Why should EU members want to limit the arrival of citizens from other EU countries? (Ok, I understand that many people don't like gypsies but just don't give them welfare and they won't come)
Because, in the small minds of small people (much the same in pre-WWII Germany) when the economy is faltering, folks are losing jobs and feeling low there needs to be someone to blame; enter the shifty foreigner who, due to the EU, is allowed to live in their country, take their jobs and consume resources that should be theirs. It's not just the Roma...it's everyone who isn't 'us' and is, instead, 'them.'

If the EU doesn't react strongly to the Swiss, there'll be a number of countries who'll be first in the queue to do the same; Finland, Italy, Sweden come to mind first.
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  #1197  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:19
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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only 14% of all swiss are going to the university (43% in Germany by the way....ridiculous)
Ridiculous that a country should be pushing its youth into higher education? Germany is actually a good example of a country that has a very good mix of highly structured apprenticeships (in over 300 trades) and university education for those that choose to go that way.
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  #1198  
Old 10.02.2014, 16:21
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Re: results on 9 Feb 14

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Would be comical if the result of this vote was that the circa 1.1Million foreigners currently eligible for Swiss citizenship now applied and obtained the red pass?

Anyway the SVP would be happy to see the foreigner percentage fall to less than 10%

added the link to the statistics, remember this was end of 2012 so more people will qualify than shown here plus there will be people who qualify through marriage or Swiss relatives that do not show up in these numbers;
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...nk/key/05.html
Actually, I think that many of the "foreigners" that can apply for Swiss citizenship will think it is a good idea. I would make sense to get the red pass and have the ability to vote on our lives here.
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Old 10.02.2014, 16:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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There is nothing to analyse. Over 80'000+ People every year (and still going up). Switzerland has almost the same percental population growth like India (!!). No other European country is even near that number. (11x more than germany)
Its just insane and its destroying wealth everyday. Every single social problem in our country (any basically in the rest of the word) is not a Problem by itself but a symptom of overpopulation.

only 14% of all swiss are going to the university (43% in Germany by the way....ridiculous), the swiss median salary is around 5800.
Now go and try to find a job against the horde of cheap studied Europeans and after that pay a rent of 2500.- with your 5k salery.
About "only 14% of all Swiss are going to the university " - I do not suppose this could be related in any way to the low qualified Swiss being unemployed? Not to worry - there could well be a big demand for additional border guards in the near future - you only need to learn simple stuff like "how much yoghurt are you carrying? Of course the salary is less than 5K.
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Old 10.02.2014, 16:22
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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....

try to study the Newspaper first, maybe you find out what this vote was about.
Again - Swiss students are treated as "EU" by the Universities in Europe because bilateral agreement between Switzerland and EU. The agreement was negotiated as a "package" that included the the freedom of movement deal as well... in other words if Switzerland introduces quota without agreeing with the EU, the agreement will be broken, i.e. students from Switzerland will loose their "EU" privileges at the European universities (reduced tuition if any, no visa requirements).
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