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  #121  
Old 05.09.2011, 23:50
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

That's 150K immigrants a year. I wonder what the last few years' average influx has been. Might even be reasonable.
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  #122  
Old 06.09.2011, 00:23
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Like the ueber inflated CHF, that economic policy does NOT benefit your average Swiss, and certainly not those 'below average'.
The strong CHF is not an "economic policy" - it is a result of holders of currently "risky" currencies buying Francs as it is seen as a safe haven. It has been imposed by external forces, which the Swiss government has little control over.

Although the Swiss government could perhaps have taken better action sooner, they could not have avoided this situation altogether.
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  #123  
Old 06.09.2011, 00:32
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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That's 150K immigrants a year. I wonder what the last few years' average influx has been. Might even be reasonable.
Caleb, could it be that you are off by a factor of 10?
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  #124  
Old 06.09.2011, 01:38
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Well, I didn't say it doesn't work. (snipped)...... Big, bold colors, with enough menace in the artwork to really grab you. Takes you back about 80 years.....

The thing is, though, these aren't illegal immigrants and you can't have your cake and eat it too by pimping your country as a tax haven, bringing in large multi-nationals to launder a bit of their billions here and expect that they only employ local folks. If you want to stop or slow immigration, there's going to have to be a major shift in economic policy.
80 years ago....? Sorry, even at MY advanced age I cannot comment on advertising posters from that era.... other than the "Uncle Sam Wants YOU" ..... (Abe Lincoln as president?)

However .. I do believe most folk here are confusing the issue about "immigrants"? The immigrant problem appears to be people who are seeking to live permanently in the land - to be taken in and given the same benefits as nationalised citizens - people who have left their countries to seek a better life?

Tis the unskilled workers, with lesser education, with large families back home awaiting acceptance ....... to live in subsidised housing, with subsidised health care, and pensions for the future (without having substantially contributed to it) .. or to live off state welfare .... who seem to all suffer the elusive form of "back-injury" while in employment here and then retire to live off compensation .... while producing children, owning luxury vehicles, and commuting back and forth to their home-land for annual vacations. Those are the problem immigrants.

Tis not companies wishing to expand their production lines, or to launder their money. This country does not pimp itself as a tax haven. Tis just the system here and the security that attracts those wishing to invest their money safely that is the attraction.

Switzerland is and has always been the Worlds Bank. Like it or not, that is just how it is.
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  #125  
Old 06.09.2011, 03:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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This country does not pimp itself as a tax haven. Tis just the system here and the security that attracts those wishing to invest their money safely that is the attraction.
Oh, you are a wag - I do like your sense of humour!
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  #126  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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The thing is, though, these aren't illegal immigrants and you can't have your cake and eat it too by pimping your country as a tax haven, bringing in large multi-nationals to launder a bit of their billions here and expect that they only employ local folks.
Nobody expects only local folks to work in Switzerland and that business model has worked just fine (i.e. without excessive population growth) until the agreement with the EU about free movement of people (Personenfreizügigkeitsabkommen) went into effect.
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  #127  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:11
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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80 years ago....? Sorry, even at MY advanced age I cannot comment on advertising posters from that era.... other than the "Uncle Sam Wants YOU" ..... (Abe Lincoln as president?)
The propaganda posters of that era are reasonably well known, even spoken of in terms of being art. The bold, primary colors and dark, menacing outlines of people are a trademark. Uncle Sam doesn't quite fit into the same genre.

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Tis the unskilled workers, with lesser education, with large families back home awaiting acceptance ....... to live in subsidised housing, with subsidised health care, and pensions for the future (without having substantially contributed to it) .. or to live off state welfare .... who seem to all suffer the elusive form of "back-injury" while in employment here and then retire to live off compensation .... while producing children, owning luxury vehicles, and commuting back and forth to their home-land for annual vacations. Those are the problem immigrants.
Subsidised what? I hate to break this to you, but if you were the type of person gunning for that, there are a LOT of other far more socialized countries than Switzerland in the EU (which is why they are far less casual about handing out work and residence permits). And what unskilled labor could afford to come here and what jobs would they even get? This is where propaganda supplants reality and breeds fear, uncertainty and doubt.

And the folks driving the porsches and the ferraris aren't lackeys on the dole I don't think.

The folks driving up rents and population density are the ones brought here by big multinationals getting big pay packets and generally aren't' sticking around.

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Tis not companies wishing to expand their production lines, or to launder their money. This country does not pimp itself as a tax haven. Tis just the system here and the security that attracts those wishing to invest their money safely that is the attraction.

Switzerland is and has always been the Worlds Bank. Like it or not, that is just how it is.
I'm not an economist, but even I can appreciate just how funny that paragraph is.
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  #128  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:29
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Nobody expects only local folks to work in Switzerland and that business model has worked just fine (i.e. without excessive population growth) until the agreement with the EU about free movement of people (Personenfreizügigkeitsabkommen) went into effect.
So, then, why did Switzerland join the Schengen and why didn't it expect this sort of influx when the taxes here are dramatically lower than most of the other EU countries?
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  #129  
Old 06.09.2011, 10:45
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

Finally some fresh air !!

http://www.ohne-uns-keine.ch/?id=5815

take from:

http://www.thelocal.ch/999/20110830/
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  #130  
Old 06.09.2011, 11:22
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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So, then, why did Switzerland join the Schengen and why didn't it expect this sort of influx when the taxes here are dramatically lower than most of the other EU countries?
First of all, Schengen and the agreement on free movement of people are two different things. Schengen is about common Schengen visa, a common database for law enforcement and elimination of border checkpoints while the latter is about taking residence and having the right to work. Therefore this thread is not about Schengen.

There was a popular vote on the agreement on free movement of people. Most so called experts and most parties claimed that the economy would suffer without the agreement and that there would be no excessive immigration. Whether they were simply wrong or lied on purpose is open for discussion but the majority of voters believed them and voted in favor of the agreement. (Including myself... mea culpa )

Last edited by Mark75; 06.09.2011 at 12:58. Reason: fixed typo
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  #131  
Old 09.09.2011, 18:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

in yesterdays "Tages-Anzeiger":

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  #132  
Old 09.09.2011, 18:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

For those that need a translation;

Kosovans save the Swiss national football team!

Without immigration we'd look old.
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  #133  
Old 09.09.2011, 21:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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They're basically saying there should be a restriction on uncontrolled immigration. Much like the governments of Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy etc etc
Yes, except they are basically portraying it in a basically offensive way.
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  #134  
Old 25.09.2011, 10:39
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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For those that need a translation;

Kosovans save the Swiss national football team!

Without immigration we'd look old.
I see the new (since yesterday) Miss Switzerland (the most beautiful girl in Switzerland) has a Caribbean mother.

So my slogan attempt is
Without immigration we'd look ugly
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  #135  
Old 26.09.2011, 15:46
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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The propaganda posters of that era are reasonably well known, even spoken of in terms of being art. The bold, primary colors and dark, menacing outlines of people are a trademark. Uncle Sam doesn't quite fit into the same genre.



Subsidised what? I hate to break this to you, but if you were the type of person gunning for that, there are a LOT of other far more socialized countries than Switzerland in the EU (which is why they are far less casual about handing out work and residence permits). And what unskilled labor could afford to come here and what jobs would they even get? This is where propaganda supplants reality and breeds fear, uncertainty and doubt.

And the folks driving the porsches and the ferraris aren't lackeys on the dole I don't think.

The folks driving up rents and population density are the ones brought here by big multinationals getting big pay packets and generally aren't' sticking around.



I'm not an economist, but even I can appreciate just how funny that paragraph is.
To the first paragraph ... I bow to your superior knowledge.

I did attempt to reply to the rest of your nonsense, but deleted it all ..... as I realise there is absolutely no point in it........ Carry on believing what you want to, it`s not going to make any difference.
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  #136  
Old 26.09.2011, 15:54
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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To the first paragraph ... I bow to your superior knowledge.

I did attempt to reply to the rest of your nonsense, but deleted it all ..... as I realise there is absolutely no point in it........ Carry on believing what you want to, it`s not going to make any difference.
It must be difficult being you, mustn't it? Make sure to give me more red blobs or whatever just to keep the trend of your being unable to really explain your disagreement or basis thereof, but wanting to feel righteous nonetheless.
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  #137  
Old 02.10.2011, 12:51
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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The propaganda posters of that era are reasonably well known, even spoken of in terms of being art. The bold, primary colors and dark, menacing outlines of people are a trademark. Uncle Sam doesn't quite fit into the same genre.
The style of the Masseneinwanderung Stoppen poster makes an obvious association with 30's era fascist propaganda. I don't read local newspapers or watch local news and wonder about any sensitivities on this in Switzerland. Broad, populist movements in many other European countries that campaign against immigration carefully avoid such association.
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  #138  
Old 02.10.2011, 13:08
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Caleb, could it be that you are off by a factor of 10?
Sorry to catch this so late. Yes, I have 1 zero too many. Still...15K...isn't that a decent number ? I am a bit clueless here.
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  #139  
Old 02.10.2011, 13:34
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

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Sorry to catch this so late. Yes, I have 1 zero too many. Still...15K...isn't that a decent number ? I am a bit clueless here.
Depends on what "decent" means. But my point was just to make clear that statistical figures should be carefully checked before publishing them. You know what I mean: "I saw it on the Internet, so it must be true."
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  #140  
Old 02.10.2011, 13:39
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen

The latest 'advert' from the UDC in the Press:

Vote UDC/SVP so your child is not the only Swiss in his/her class?

But eh one I really do object to is the massive

THE Swiss vote UDC/SVP- which is fraudulent and a blatant lie.
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