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  #1461  
Old 11.02.2014, 06:58
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Fantabulous, 74 pages and everybody is still around.
...and saying the same things.
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  #1462  
Old 11.02.2014, 07:25
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I apologize to sound rude and arrogant, but when I grew up, people from your country and all the other Comecon/WarsawPact countries had NO chance to visit western countries .... and when you mention Firenze, it is to be noted that PCI leaders Palmiro Togliatti and Enrico Berlinguer etc in vain tried to open up things
Oh god Wolli, I am talking about recent years. Between you and me not even in those time you are referring to was totally, absolutely impossible to study abroad, only that it was not, by all means, common, or easy; mother of one of my friends had a PhD degree from Sorbonne, yes, unbelievable.
Back to our days now: it is quite common nowadays to study one year, or only a semester abroad, with the help of, say, Erasmus programme (there are other options too, some more time ago it was Tempus for instance). Many students choose to do that because it enhances their CVs, they have the chance to compare two educational systems, and they learn more things than "school". Once upon a time this kind of learning experience was reserved only to the rich and privileged, now "even" some poor kid from Moldova or Ukraine (which are not in the EU, but there are programmes for them too) or other parts of the world can do it, if he or she is very interested in that.
Erasmus programme is/was still well and alive, in fact a year ago I heard two fresh graduates asking each other "Where did you do your Erasmus?" (sorry, in my native language sounds a lot funnier)
It would be a pity to have its funds cut, or drastically reduced.
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  #1463  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:03
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

"EU WILL STOP TRADING WITH SWITZERLAND, THAT WILL TEACH THEM"
"OMG - WILL THEY KICK ME OUT OF THE COUNTRY?"
"THE SWISS HATE FOREIGNERS NOW"
"ALL FOREIGN COMPANIES WILL LEAVE SWITZERLAND"

It's so amusing to read this thread full of panicked, emotional and uninformed toss. And very ironic that these same people accuse the Swiss of lacking knowledge and analysis, as well as the necessary foresight to make such important political decisions.

I read a lot of newspapers, both foreign and Swiss, and nowhere is the discussion as shallow, misinformed and misguided as here. Funny that, given that some here think they're such a clever bunch who are only here because the locals aren't good enough.

Groan me all you want, but get a clue. Read some papers, inform yourself, debate, the Swiss do it, so should you.
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  #1464  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:04
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I am sure you can answer this yourself.

It's obviously a culmination of various factors ... not one here or one there.
My point clearly is that, just because you speak a local language does not automatically mean you are "integrated". I have seen many people in Australia who speak English but who do NOT integrate into Australian culture! I have seen that in the dozens of countries I have been to, and I see the same thing here - people who speak German but who are not integrating into Swiss society - They work here (and therefore it is in their interest to learn the language), and they work here ... but that's it ...
I have seen this all over the world, and it's constantly an issue!
so you mean by learning the language, respecting the law and the rules of a country, understanding the culture and history? etc is not enough?
I also have also have to join the women and and shooting club? Join the Fasnacht? Going to the Street parade? Eat fondue and Raclet everyday? Forced weekend hiking? :roll eyes:

or what is exactly integration for you (I think you mean total assimilation) and what exactly is THE issue?
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  #1465  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:08
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I would like to ask simple question, i have posted it in different forum


Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders?

here is link:

Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders?
No. You won't be asked to leave at least until your permit expires. This initiative is to lower the number coming in annually, not to send the people we already have home.
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  #1466  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:10
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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"EU WILL STOP TRADING WITH SWITZERLAND, THAT WILL TEACH THEM"
"OMG - WILL THEY KICK ME OUT OF THE COUNTRY?"
"THE SWISS HATE FOREIGNERS NOW"
"ALL FOREIGN COMPANIES WILL LEAVE SWITZERLAND"

It's so amusing to read this thread full of panicked, emotional and uninformed toss. And very ironic that these same people accuse the Swiss of lacking knowledge and analysis, as well as the necessary foresight to make such important political decisions.

I read a lot of newspapers, both foreign and Swiss, and nowhere is the discussion as shallow, misinformed and misguided as here. Funny that, given that some here think they're such a clever bunch who are only here because the locals aren't good enough.

Groan me all you want, but get a clue. Read some papers, inform yourself, debate, the Swiss do it, so should you.
you're expecting too much from an internet forum...
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  #1467  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:10
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I don't know you guys, but even-though i understand the swiss want to have control back, a result like this makes me feel sad and not welcome here.

It's like they all smile at you but as soon as you go they stab you in the back.
If a country getting control of their own immigration makes you feel sad and unwelcome, i wouldn't suggest you going to the USA, Canada, Australia etc.
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  #1468  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:15
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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About "Your reference to Opera is very controversial" - you mean the one where the fat lady sings at the end or are you talking about "Oprah"?

I am sure he was / is talking about the Norwegian browser. There again, I am easily confused.
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  #1469  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:16
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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so you mean by learning the language, respecting the law and the rules of a country, understanding the culture and history? etc is not enough?
I also have also have to join the women and and shooting club? Join the Fasnacht? Going to the Street parade? Eat fondue and Raclet everyday? Forced weekend hiking? :roll eyes:

or what is exactly integration for you (I think you mean total assimilation) and what exactly is THE issue?
Integration is when you become as one of the locals. You do the things they do, you eat the type of things they eat, you surround yourself with local friends etc. So actually joining Fasnacht, going for weekend hikes etc. might not be too bad for your integration process
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  #1470  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:20
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Oook so even those who have permit C and its expiring in 2017 are not safe, ok i get it.
Your fears are justified. The roundups have started already - if you appear to by typically Swiss (Blue hair, blonde eyes), you have nothing to worry about.
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  #1471  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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you're expecting too much from an internet forum...
Apparently expecting a little more than utter ignorance (when it comes to swiss politics) is too much to ask for the majority of people on THIS forum.
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  #1472  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:21
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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The obvious resolution is a cap to the number of immigrants we take in. If you haven’t gotten that by now then.. well good luck in life.
For many of us, there are two parts of this situation that bother us, and neither of them are that the Swiss have voted to reduce the number of future immigrants.

Part one - If you have been here several years and do not know if your B or C permit is possible to renew, not knowing how these permits will be treated leaves you completely rethinking whether or not your plans to stay in switzerland are still possible, and middle aged people with families do try to avoid uncertainties like having to compete for the jobs they have had for years with new job candidates every year. What if my company has to do a job search and interview people for my job every year to justify my renewal? Everyone could have a bad year. No one likes to live in a situation where their future is completely uncertain, and more uncertain than the people who depend on them every day. We can never relax, and if we stay in Switzerland, we are at the whims of whatever new standard is introduced, potentially at whatever interval the testing will be done. We might not be Swiss, but do we really need to live with that much pressure and uncertainty?

Part two . The campaign posters are downright scary and filled with hate. If hate messages can sway the public vote here, and it is ok to hate us collectively in public today, how will this change slowly, over time, what is going to be viewed as acceptable treatment in a year or three? Will the Swiss set up spit on an auslander day? The messages of the SVP would get the party leaders arrested for hate crimes if they put their hateful and racist signs up in most civilized countries in the world. It is obvious that the SVP can sway public opinion. Against us as a group. Why would we think this would not impact our security and quality of life individually? Why should we think the hate messages will not continue, until it comes as close to public lynching and cross burning as it can?

This is a direct democracy. And while I understand that we do not deserve the same rights as a Swiss person, we are nearing 25% of the population. and we have no representation or any way for our voices to be heard in a situation where the public has collectively decided to like us less and treat us worse than they used to. And there is nothing we can do about it except leave. Which is less possible when your life and job and family are integrated here without a job or a home to return to where you came from.

And then, there are posts where people are surprised you are complaining on a forum.

Are we expected to just repeat over and over again, "thank you sir, may I have another" as we bend over and take the abuse?
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  #1473  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:24
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Your fears are justified. The roundups have started already - if you appear to by typically Swiss (Blue hair, blonde eyes), you have nothing to worry about.
Not all swiss have blue eyes and blond hair... And can you PROVE that people are being rounded up obviously not because this is just dumb talk from someone obviously not too fond of the Swiss..
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  #1474  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:30
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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This is a direct democracy. And while I understand that we do not deserve the same rights as a Swiss person, we are nearing 25% of the population. and we have no representation or any way for our voices to be heard in a situation where the public has collectively decided to like us less and treat us worse than they used to. And there is nothing we can do about it except leave. Which is less possible when your life and job and family are integrated here without a job or a home to return to where you came from.

And then, there are posts where people are surprised you are complaining on a forum.

Are we expected to just repeat over and over again, "thank you sir, may I have another" as we bend over and take the abuse?
The fact that you are nearing 25% of the population is actually the reason the initiative passed in the third place. There are definetly security concerns, increased criminal activity etc.
Not sure what abuse you are referring to, but you definitely have a very unrealistic expectation of what rights foreign immigrants get when they immigrate into a first world country. This kind of policy is found all over the western world not just CH.
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  #1475  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:31
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SVP lost the elections

Well, not elections on the federal level
BUT
lost out again in regard to the Zürich city government
http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/zuerich/ue...len-1.18238230
elections which are significant in a unionwide way

They not only lost out in regard to the city government but even in regard to the city parliament. The abortion matter was defacto also a SVP thing
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  #1476  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:32
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Not all swiss have blue eyes and blond hair... And can you PROVE that people are being rounded up obviously not because this is just dumb talk from someone obviously not too fond of the Swiss..
I can assure you ALL of my Swiss friends have BLUE hair and BLONDE eyes.

Read today's Völkischer Beobachter or Der Stürmer for latest news on the roundups.

I am not fond of ignorance or petty nationalism - which is what Europe does not need.
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  #1477  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:35
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Part two . The campaign posters are downright scary and filled with hate. If hate messages can sway the public vote here, and it is ok to hate us collectively in public today, how will this change slowly, over time, what is going to be viewed as acceptable treatment in a year or three? Will the Swiss set up spit on an auslander day? The messages of the SVP would get the party leaders arrested for hate crimes if they put their hateful and racist signs up in most civilized countries in the world. It is obvious that the SVP can sway public opinion. Against us as a group. Why would we think this would not impact our security and quality of life individually? Why should we think the hate messages will not continue, until it comes as close to public lynching and cross burning as it can?
What exactly did you find so very hate filled in the campaign posters...
"he messages of the SVP would get the party leaders arrested for hate crimes if they put their hateful and racist signs up in most civilized countries in the world."
Um... actually no. There's this little thing called freedom of speech...
"Why should we think the hate messages will not continue, until it comes as close to public lynching and cross burning as it can?"
Ok so now were getting to the emotional whining... but I’ll play along. Again what did you find so offensive?
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  #1478  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:36
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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I can assure you ALL of my Swiss friends have BLUE hair and BLONDE eyes.

Read today's Völkischer Beobachter or Der Stürmer for latest news on the roundups.

I am not fond of ignorance or petty nationalism - which is what Europe does not need.
Well that's probably because you have either 1 or no Swiss friends.
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  #1479  
Old 11.02.2014, 08:36
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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Integration is when you become as one of the locals. You do the things they do, you eat the type of things they eat, you surround yourself with local friends etc. So actually joining Fasnacht, going for weekend hikes etc. might not be too bad for your integration process
that is not integration, that is total assimilation (and…weird?), and is not even expected to get the Swiss passport…

this article describes it quite well:
http://www.dw.de/opinion-integration...tion/a-3126467
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Old 11.02.2014, 08:38
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Re: Masseneinwanderung Stoppen [initiative to limit immigration]

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...Not sure what abuse you are referring to, but you definitely have a very unrealistic expectation of what rights foreign immigrants get when they immigrate into a first world country. This kind of policy is found all over the western world not just CH.
I expect not to be the target of hate crimes every day. Even though I am white, I am a human, and I despair when people are allowed to treat my fellow human beings like this.

THIS

https://www.google.ch/search?q=svp+p...w=1366&bih=653

Is a hate crime in most first world countries.
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