I suspect Mr 'Hofener might already be aware of that...

Not necessarily. This sort of thing got said a lot during the Bush Jr years.

Sure. At the funeral of my Godfather in Geneva everything was in French and once Aunt Clara died, before the actual beginning, during a kind of break and after the church service, on her personal wish was played "the Battle Hymn of the Republic" in endless repetition. And when my mother died, with heavy sympathies for France, beside "Grosser Gott wir loben Dich" (a Protestant version) there were the tunes of the "Marseillaise" played on a church organ

And "nationalist" Italian songs ? Like those here
http://www.nazionale.altervista.org/FRATELLI%20D'ITALIA.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4rR4I56hdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckWLcTrKzaw
http://folk.ntnu.no/makarov/temporar...ionale-it1.mp3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXiJgCRH4Y
......

Maybe because...

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"---Howard Zinn

Sorry, forgot to specify "free churches". The case at our church, is as I specified above.

Yeah I kind of get your point. I do speak five foreign languages myself, some of which seem to be closer to German than Swiss-German is, so I'm not entirely stupid. And I know where you can learn Swiss-German - Migros klubschule, if you have a minimum of B1 in Hochdeutsch. I'll make my own thread though and stop derailing yours.

Without having read *every* post on here, I get the premise of the question- the different responses to constructive criticism and just plain b*tching.

The first points out a problem, identifies why it is a problem, and in many cases offers a suggestion or a partial suggestion to resolve the problem. All that is done in a logical and rational manner.

The second points out a problem, places blame at someone else's feet, and usually has some flaw in its premise. Oftentimes no solution, or an entirely irrational solution is offered. All this is, again, oftentimes characterized by vitriol, negative emotion, name-calling, and logical fallacies.

In the U.S. and Switzerland, both forms of political speech are, and should be protected. In the U.S, many Americans will listen to, and debate with the former. There are also many who quickly resort to the latter.

It can be very hard to have a debate in the U.S, because of this. I personally believe my positions are only strengthened when they are questioned and tested, and sometimes new truths are revealed to me this way.

Saying "That's the way it is- like it or leave," is a cop-out, anywhere in the world.

I believe that the right thing is first give the country room to grow on you, rather then throw out criticisms from the beginning. Give it a chance, then after being a good citizen and giving the benefit of the doubt, trying to understand the locals etc, give your suggestions, and voice your opinions, and so on...why not? No country's perfect.

Though, if I knew about something truly wrong, like child labor, sex slavery, exploitation etc etc...I would not care if I lived in the country a day or a lifetime, I'd speak up about it regardless....

I on extensive visits to the USA realized that the gigantic "Sister Republic" has far more in common with Switzerland than I originally expected. Outsiders however have to see that while both nations are open for discussion, some basics should be accepted. And one basic is about language. Even if quite many US-Americans and quite many Swiss people are fiercely nationalist, the general consensus is that BOTH "American-English" and "Swiss German" simply a groups of dialects of the main-language. For example: Can Americans speak Standard English ? Yes they can. Do they like to do so ? No, they do not. In case you see a similarity, it is just coincidence

The odd thing is that I find the little things almost rankle people more. When I have complained about the impossibility of finding a cold drink (instead of cool) that seems elicit the biggest eye rolls and groans. When I talk about the legally-mandated requirements for peace and quiet, stores not being open after work, insanely high prices that make me border-hop for shopping, the hookers in Zürich, their monetary policy, the ridiculous cost of doing business, these are generally discussed seriously and openly.

I think, at a certain level, you have to have some credibility that you really are embracing the country as a whole, but once people believe that, they can take some surprisingly major criticism quite well. (Granted, I think it also helps that I am very open about America's flaws, as well.)

I would say the Swiss are more versatile in that respect, because I would wager more Swiss (as a percentage of the total population) would better understand High German than Americans understand Standard English. Too many in the U.S. understand little more than their local dialectic, and while they might understand the words spoken at them, many of these would miss the true meaning of what was being said.

Can you please tell us a bit more about the monetary policy of the hookers in Zurich?

You have to pay,before service is rendered