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  #101  
Old 10.01.2012, 16:47
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

I am not disagreeing with all your points. What I was disagreeing with is that she cannot be judged purely on whether she 'could' have made more money trading some derivatives as opposed to what she did and then turn around and say that that possibly makes her innocent. No, thats not how this works - and that was my major point. And that is what you alluded to in your previous post. The question for me was could we completely rule out that she had no prior information - now that becomes more difficult.

As an example lets say that a trade was made on XYZ stock on the SMI that was involved in a merger. If it was found that one of the directors (who knew of the merger and told said wife) wives made the trade, then how would that situation be resolved? Now I understand that this is illegal in CH and what Ms H did wasnt, but is it ethical and less 'wrong'? Im only asking are the two cases the same or different if you take out the legalities?

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I believe that it is not the Swiss publics bloody business what Mrs Hildebrandt does with her money. She deserves the same banking secret everyone else has.
When it comes to her spend value on manicures, pedicures, brand of shampoo, even Novartis stock, i completely agree. I cannot agree though when it comes to trading currency - that should be made public - I do understand that the realities here in CH are different. It should be a 'cost' of taking the job - whether the information is voluntary or not. Thats why the job pays so much - lots of responsibility and lots of sacrifices. Otherwise you get this exact situation where we cannot be certain on the actual intent of the trade. There is no other way to signal some transparency.

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you should disclose to your bank or in this case the SNB what you do in order to make sure that you don't abuse insider knowledge. The Hildebrandts did so and apparently didn't break any rules
Honestly he should have reversed the trade and sold out - he chose not to !! Any ideas why? Unfortunately we can only speculate, your guess has equal weight to mine - and that is the exact problem - Integrity. Integrity in his position carries a lot of weight - it sank and took him with it.

Overall I do view your other points as also valid.

Last edited by Lex; 10.01.2012 at 17:04.
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  #102  
Old 10.01.2012, 17:15
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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...

Honestly he should have reversed the trade and sold out - he chose not to !! Any ideas why? ...
because that would have been illegal (holding a position less than 6 months)
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  #103  
Old 10.01.2012, 17:43
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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About "do not divulge sensitive information to family which they may (be tempted to) trade on."

Problem is if a family member does coincidentally trade without your sensitive information; how do you ever prove that you did not give this sensitive information?
you're right - there is no way to prove what you did not do...

however, from a practical standpoint, it is easy to tell if someone did or did not act on privileged information. just as a hypothetical example, if I told you (and you trusted me) that AAPL was going to buy out NOK at 10 a share (current price say 5), you wouldn't just buy a 100 shares of Nokia; you'd stretch and buy as much as you could afford. And if you knew anything about investing, you wouldn't even buy Nokia shares at all, but buy out of the money call options. or CFDs.
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  #104  
Old 10.01.2012, 17:55
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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because that would have been illegal (holding a position less than 6 months)
He is on record as saying he regrets not reversing the decision or was that in regards to something else?
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  #105  
Old 10.01.2012, 17:59
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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I'm sure there are some skeletons in Mr Blochers' closet. However it needed somebody 'powerful' to bring this out otherwise it would have been hidden away somewhere.

The point is that wrong doing has been done (morally or legally) and it needed somebody of Mr Blocher's stature to bring it out. Whether he is a fan of banking secrets or not isn't really the point.

And I don't think it is correct that only people with 100% records morally/legally etc have the right to complain about somebody elses' wrongdoings.
I think you miss the point.

Blocher is/was a strong supporter of bank secrecy. But, when he saw an opportunity to discredit somebody he used information that was obtained only through breaking bank secrecy.
So now he has generated a similar credible issue as Hildenbrand; do you believe Blocher will do what he says or do you believe he will change opportunistically.
It has nothing to do with his record morally/legally .
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  #106  
Old 10.01.2012, 18:16
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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I think you miss the point.

Blocher is/was a strong supporter of bank secrecy. But, when he saw an opportunity to discredit somebody he used information that was obtained only through breaking bank secrecy.
So now he has generated a similar credible issue as Hildenbrand; do you believe Blocher will do what he says or do you believe he will change opportunistically.
It has nothing to do with his record morally/legally .
OK, fair enough. Mr Blocher is a politician and they are not known for their integrity. In my book most politicians change everything they do and say to suit themselves (or their party).
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  #107  
Old 10.01.2012, 18:45
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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Mr Blocher is a politician and they are not known for integrity.
That will do it.
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  #108  
Old 10.01.2012, 18:46
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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He is on record as saying he regrets not reversing the decision or was that in regards to something else?
yes, after the whole thing went public he and every other swiss citizen should regret it. but, ex ante, it was a different situation. during this time, he had to think about other things than a "small" transaction (mind you, family hildebrand have quite a lot of money, 13 millions i read once). thats why he showed the transaction the very next day to the compliance manager, this guy said its ok and he went on.

if he would wanted to reverse the transaction, this would only have had cost time, as the "bankrat" must approve it etc: in other words, a big hassle for nothing, maybe even risk a discussion in the media as this probably would have came public, weakening SNB's position. (in ex-ante perspective). so what would have you chosen? leave the transaction as it is (who would have thought that time that it could become public?) or risk a lot?
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  #109  
Old 10.01.2012, 19:02
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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if he would wanted to reverse the transaction, this would only have had cost time, as the "bankrat" must approve it etc: in other words, a big hassle for nothing, maybe even risk a discussion in the media as this probably would have came public, weakening SNB's position. (in ex-ante perspective). so what would have you chosen? leave the transaction as it is (who would have thought that time that it could become public?) or risk a lot?
Ok. But im only interested if it was LEGAL or not for him to reverse the transaction - as you alluded to it being illegal in line with the six month rule, which i have checked - the rest is pure speculation. The problem is, he didnt 'leave' the transaction (that actually could have been some defence) - he actually closed it in October after opening it in August. The middle of those two months was the 'floor' on the EUR CHF in Sept, not a good look IMO.

Thanks though.
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  #110  
Old 10.01.2012, 19:46
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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Ok. But im only interested if it was LEGAL or not for him to reverse the transaction - as you alluded to it being illegal in line with the six month rule, which i have checked - the rest is pure speculation. The problem is, he didnt 'leave' the transaction (that actually could have been some defence) - he actually closed it in October after opening it in August. The middle of those two months was the 'floor' on the EUR CHF in Sept, not a good look IMO.

Thanks though.
well, officially by accounting standards (first in first out), the position isn't closed yet. the transaction in october is connected to the one in march, giving a loss (1'100 k chf/usd 0.9375 in march vs 475 k 0.9202 in october).

no it was illegal to do this reverse transaction, as between march and august 6 months haven't passed by!
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  #111  
Old 10.01.2012, 21:27
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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if she did know and all she did was place a straight vanilla trade (rather than play the options), then she was a rather dumb currency trader...
Agree: A former ccy trader who wants to do insider trading will not sell her Swiss Chalet and buy USD physically: so many products out there do not require cash settlement . It s not making sense.
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  #112  
Old 10.01.2012, 21:29
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

A little bit of the spouse is mentioned here.

SMH

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"We married relatively late, and from the beginning our marriage has always been, how shall I put it ... Well, let's say my wife is a strong personality," said Hildebrand.
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  #113  
Old 10.01.2012, 21:39
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

I wonder why he didn't resign after the many many billions he put in the sand and the crazy risks he took... they probably couldn't get rid of him. He was one of the worst head of SNB, do you know someone worse?

Even his wife was wise enough to buy dollars not euros... at least he is past now.
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  #114  
Old 10.01.2012, 21:59
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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because that would have been illegal (holding a position less than 6 months)
Holding cash, what are you talking about, how can there be a minimium holding period for anything?
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  #115  
Old 10.01.2012, 22:03
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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Its still unethical though. Both the wife and he knew that very well. She is a former hedge fund trader - if she had done this on a SMI listed company that could have been jail.
Unethical of course but NOT criminal. Not even against the regulations. THIS is what needs to be changed as the PRESENT LEGAL SITUATION is absolutely unacceptable !

And she of course did not do anything thelike in regard to stock exchange things, as she is a professional


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But if the integrity of this person is in question, does the public not have a right to know? He is not some cornerstore baker, but clearly in the public/financial eye. Whether this was legal or not is one matter. The other is transparency - the public who have placed a trust in this person to devalue their wealth - has every right to know about trades he makes on information that HE controls.
-
THE PUBLIC has a right to know. But to steal documents from a bank is not an ethical but a criminal deed. To take over stolen goods and hand them onwards is fencing, and is just another criminal deed.

Mr Blocher took the stuff over. How he handled it may have been unethical but not criminal, and he as a lawyer knew this.

Mr Hildebrand has not "devalued" their wealth, but has done his uttermost to rescue the wealth of the Swiss people. And this is so, regardless of what he knew or did not know

ALL this clearly shows that there are two culprits in the matter

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Recently, trading sandals involving insider info with representatives of the US congress also came to light. It was determined that when politicians are involved in such things, it is not criminal. But that hardly makes it right.
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It shows that also the USA has this problem, even if being a bit larger than Switzerland
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  #116  
Old 10.01.2012, 22:09
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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I don't doubt that he wasn't aware of his wife's transactions. The issue of integrity lies in whether she had become aware of the pending peg from him. In the same way he shouldn't be broadcasting sensitive information to rich and powerful friends, he shouldn't be telling his wife. Or if he does, he should have advised her it would be very bad to use that information for her own gain. (If she did, then she obviously spectacularly stupid).
Your doubts may be justified, but my principle is "in case of doubt in favour of the accused". It is NOT the accused who has to prove his innocence. These doubts of quite many people were too serious for a NB-president to carry on, as there was/is a credibility-gap

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I think you miss the point.

Blocher is/was a strong supporter of bank secrecy. But, when he saw an opportunity to discredit somebody he used information that was obtained only through breaking bank secrecy.
So now he has generated a similar credible issue as Hildenbrand; do you believe Blocher will do what he says or do you believe he will change opportunistically.
It has nothing to do with his record morally/legally .
He lied to the public in regard to the Basler Zeitung and he now lied to the public in regard to NOT having been involved in this matter once again. So that people increasingly realize that he is at least a liar

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OK, fair enough. Mr Blocher is a politician and they are not known for their integrity. In my book most politicians change everything they do and say to suit themselves (or their party).
Sure, but Mr Blocher tells the world permanently that he is NOT a "politician" and that he always is honest to the bones and tells only the truth and nothing then the truth

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  #117  
Old 10.01.2012, 23:03
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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I wonder why he didn't resign after the many many billions he put in the sand and the crazy risks he took... they probably couldn't get rid of him. He was one of the worst head of SNB, do you know someone worse?

Even his wife was wise enough to buy dollars not euros... at least he is past now.
Are you one of the people that bought into the SVPs misleading campaign where the SNBs money is the "fortune" of the Swiss?

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Holding cash, what are you talking about, how can there be a minimium holding period for anything?
That is one of the rules for the SNB directors. They have to hold foreign currency for at least 6 months, in order to prevent speculation. The idea is that while it is possible to predict, up to a certain point, what will happen tomorrow or the next week (if you are the SNB), predicting what will happen in half a year is quite tricky.
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  #118  
Old 11.01.2012, 01:02
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

Some "reasoning" for the decision by Richard Quest of CNN.

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...he-have-to-go/
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  #119  
Old 11.01.2012, 01:05
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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Holding cash, what are you talking about, how can there be a minimium holding period for anything?
very common. company directors and other insiders in the US for example, may buy their own company's stock, but are not allowed to 'round-trip' within 6 months.
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  #120  
Old 11.01.2012, 19:05
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Re: SNB chief resigns...

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chf 151,200.00
Actually a lot more for the next 12 months.


Swissinfo DE

Hildebrand will still receive his salary for twelve months amounting to CHF995,000 pa.

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Entsprechend den arbeitsrechtlichen Verpflichtungen erfolge eine Lohnfortzahlung von zwölf Monaten. Hildebrand verdiente gemäss dem letzten verfügbaren Geschäftsbericht im Jahr 2010 knapp 995'000 Franken.
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