1. I did not say you had to convert in order to marry - I said this was often the reason and in some orthodox sects it would be a requirement.

2. You are actually agreeing that the concept of being Jewish is a racial perception and not necessarily a religeous one.

3. You are confusing being Jewish with practicing Judaism.

1.Like I said the Orthodox would not convert someone who wants to convert for the sake of marriage so it wouldn't be a requirement. Orthodox rabbis will turn a person away if they find out that the person is converting for the sake of marriage. As a matter of fact, I know one women who has been turned away for many years, cause rabbis found out that she only wants to convert for the sake of getting married.

2.Being Jewish is not a racial perception. I never said I agree with it. I just listed the requirements of being Jewish according to Jewish religion law (It's called Halacha in Hebrew). This means any non-Jew can convert with the rabbis. Let's say he is a Mexican guy. After the conversion he becomes Jewish. He is also recognized and accepted as Jewish. So it has nothing to do with the racial thing. There are African Jews, Chinese Jews, Yemenite Jews, Kurdish Jews, Indian Jews etc etc.

3.Practicing Judaism is an important part of being Jewish but it does not mean that anyone practicing Judaism becomes automatically Jewish. Just like in any religion, there is a conversion process. Just like you have to do a conversion process to become Catholic, it's the same thing with being Jewish.

Talk about not getting the point

15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Christianity is based on the assumption that Jesus died for "our", that is, Christians' sins. Fat lot of luck if Jesus was one of the Chosen, i.e. jewish, People and was THEIR sacrificial ram aka scapegoat loaded with all sins of Israel.

Please read some Bible before commenting, especially if I already quote chapter and verse, thanks

Nice try at dawah, Nil

I already don't like my local catholic church ringing their bells umpteen times a day, so if I could have a say then I would rather not have more sources of noise in my neighborhood. I just think it's unfair to non religious residents who have to endure their peace and quiet disturbed... especially on a Sunday. Sunday is a day of rest, why ring noisy bells?, it seems self contradictory. Also, a minaret (like a church bell) is a call to prayer, why on earth are people unable to set the alarm clocks at home if you want to go to church / the mosque on time? New Apostolic churches don't have bells, and I never notice any people coming late for service on Sunday in these churches.

This is about (in this case tiny) towers NOT calls to prayer.

Just the first step, luv, just the first step

care to stir harder ??

Well as long as no noise is generated, fine. Don't see anything wrong with a minaret, don't understand what all the brouhaha is about.

brouhaha = foreign
Simple as, I'm afraid .

Oooooh, did I touch a raw nerve there, Mr Chamberlain?

Sorry to pop your bubble, appeasement doesn't work.

Just because you've caved in in the UK and the US doesn't mean we're planning to here. Religious freedom is fine, WITH OTHER TOLERANT RELIGIONS. We've fought wars to declaw and defang our own poisonous religions. I see the signs of another poisonous religion trying to take over.

Like I said before, PC-ness is a load of crap, something like a Pax Romana with "Hannibal ante portas".

Go read Winston Churchill's biography, you might learn something

I am 99% sure that you are of Pakistani origin. So let me ask you how many free and fair elections have been held in Pakistan occupied Kashmir? J&K state has 35-40% non-Muslims living in it! I bet your local madrassa did not teach you that?

According to UN Pakistan was supposed to vacate Pakistan occupied Kashmir first! Did Pakistan vacate POK?

I guess you forgot the 400,000 INNOCENT native Kashmiri Hindus that got driven out by Islamic facists (in 1989) before your so called "Indian army aggression"? Why were they driven out? Why were women raped, tortured, killed? Why were innocent non-Muslims skinned alive and left hanging on streets corners? Was it because they were Kafir and not of the book? Why were top intellectuals murdered by Islamic facists ? Btw your UN was silent then as well! The world turned a blind eye when this happened!

The killed figure includes people killed by terrorists as well. Unlike you I am not intellectually dishonest so yes innocent do get caught in between the fight but the Islamic fascists started the trouble. You reap what you sow! Btw the breakdown of your figures is heavily padded.

How is the democratic election process going on in Pakistan? How many years has Pakistan been ruled by democratic govt? Ouuch! Did that hurt?
Get your own house in order before lecturing the world.
Hahahahah! Some terrorists? Understatement of your life I guess! Have you ever been to J&K state? If not then shut your trap. What you could do though is shut some of those Pakistan based terrorist training camps that keep pushing Islamic facists into Indian Kashmir (and the world). Any half smart person knows the role Pakistan army/ISI plays in Indian Kashmir.

India is a secular country. Anyone who wants to break the country PURELY on the basis of religion knows where to go--->Pakistan (the state carved out of India purely for muslims)

For you to compare the situation in Kashmir with Iraq or Afghanistan shows that you are completely clueless. Btw what should 40% of non-muslims in J&K state do? Get shafted again?

Did you pull that figure out of thin air? Dispatches programme ran an excellent documentary on the way apostates are getting treated by muslims IN UK! 37% of YOUNG Muslims polled said that any Muslim that leaves Islam deserves to be killed.

I smell bull. Yes majority of Muslims are law abiding but don't come out with airy fairy sentences about "tremendous respect".

Oh and please don't be patronizing and automatically assume that people have not lived with Muslims. Extremism does not always equate to holding guns!

Well said sir! Finally someone who mentions facts instead of sugar coating it with PCness.
People are not allowed to mention basic facts about religious ideologies in the name of PCness! I wonder why Islam has such a bad rep world over? From east to west Islam is so misunderstood right? NOT!

Some religions are more welcome than others

If you're a Sikh, Hindu or Buddhist in Switzerland and want to build a temple, no problem; if you're a Muslim and want to put up a minaret, you'd better start praying.


Love that quote from you.

Sure looks like Pea got up on the wrong side of the bed today, that too at 5am! Aren't getting any or what?!?

The idea of a mosque being built in the centre of Lucerne will no doubt be a controversial issue. Will this be a welcome additional tourist attraction or would it jar with the traditional city architecture ? Would placing it in the modern part of the city be a good solution ? One thing is for certain, the SVP are opposed to it.

http://www.20min.ch/tools/suchen/story/19225269

It's refreshing to hear young people being so positive on the subject. Warms the cockles of my heart.

Who's the sponsor? If it's a bunch of Wahabbis from Saudi Arabia, forget it. If it looks like an office building, why not?

It is unlikely to look like an office building (I hope). Good for the Muslims for building a place of worship. We lived in Oman for three years and you were never more than 500 metres away from a mosque (except in Wahiba sand obviously). I miss the call to prayer, it is very peaceful and melodic usually. I think as long as non Muslims are allowed in to look at it, there really ought not be a problem.

umm, because office buildings are traditionally beautiful?

I, for one, would certainly be ok with a Mosque, and in fact I would prefer it to be a 'traditional' looking mosque. They are usually pretty beautiful buildings.

go for it, Lozärn

The SVP will only speak against a mosque in the centre, and any minaret planned.