Dude, get some reading comprehension!

A), I'm NOT Elisabetta

B) I AIN"T Italian

Tom

Yeah, he gets around.

your reference to a "Pasha Class" is a different issue altogether (and might be hyperbole just a bit ), although I appreciate your point because I have deep respect for the Swiss disdain of aristocracy and its many trappings. the simple answer is to require language training as part of the permitting process. there is already a market of private language professionals (many of them Swiss) who cater almost entirely to the expat population, and who do quite well for themselves doing so. and requiring at least a rudimentary ability to navigate the local language (and rudimentary English is candidly all many expats have when they come to the US) is really not asking anything that should frighten us foreigners.

the trickier issue is how to motivate expats to "integrate" beyond the language issue. I can't tell you how many of my fellow expats are baffled as to why I participate in 2 clubs in the city (one of which our oldest son also participates in), even though they are sports-related and the other guys have been nothing but incredibly kind and patient. all it takes is a polite e-mail or phone call and you're off to the races.

If people want to integrate or not into swiss society, that's their business.

But then they shouldn't complain that the policeman, the plumber, the doctor, the dentist, etc, do not speak English. If you want to live in splendid isolation, it is indeed your business, but don't expect the people of another country to speak your language.

I'd always be very happy to help newcomers with any language problem - for 6 months, 1 year perhaps. But then ... how long should you wipe people's noses and tie their shoelaces. BTW learning a language at communicative level as nothing to do with lessons, expensive courses, etc. It is about getting on with it- make an effort to spend time with local people and not just ex-pats, try to watch local TV, not just the Beeb or CNN- try to read the local papers. It is a state of mind and attitude, with or without Berlitz or Migroschule. And it is also about something else, respect.

Sure. They can always come on here after ten years in Switzerland and complain that they have to find another flat and the Swiss don't want to give them one; that certain forms are not available in English; that their neighbours are unfriendly; that they are lonely as the expats they once knew have moved on; that they want an English speaking gym group, swimming club, theatre group for their child; that they don't know where to find xxxx.

Unfortunately their business has a ripple on effect for the rest of society.

As a foreign resident who has been struggling learning German for the past two years, I wholeheartedly agree that when you move to a country you must be the one to adjust. I had that opinion in my home country too. But having said that I will be just a little bit more tolerant of people learning English...

Don't think that we forget it. At least I never saw it happen. But at a neurolinguistic level it is possible to 'forget' how to speak or write a language. That's called 'aphasie'. When a swiss-german who has had his or her schooling here tells you that they 'forgot' he or she is making up excuses (for not practising high-german because they dislike speaking it).

If I here use the world "rubbish" I do not refer to "Heckenhocker" but to those Swiss people who talk about "having forgotten". But we of course speak about speaking Standard-German, and in this you have to see TWO aspects.
> While uncountable Swiss Germans for months stayed in English or French speaking areas to get practice in these languages, only very few spent more than two weeks in areas where Standard German is used in daily life
> The second aspect is the cramped and complicated relationship between Switzerland and Germany. The German Empire in its various "guises" between 1291 and around 1800 was seriously detested in what gradually became the Switzerland of today. But was fairly liked or even popular in the late 19th Century and into WW-I . Which meant that Emperor Wilhelm II enjoyed quite some popularity on his extensive visit to Switzerland in 1912. The German defeat in WW-I already had a negative impact, but what finally made the German Empire (Deutsches Reich) hated was the rise of Imperial Chanceller Adolf Hitler to absolute power, particularily when he became Head of State and changed the title from Imperial President (a contradiction in itself, but revealing) by the new title Leader of the German Empire (Führer des Deutschen Reichs). While there was a continued co-operation with the Germans in field like industry and banking, lots of efforts were put into making a distance, actually in the way of what I would call a "counter propaganda battle". Add to this that even in times of the Cold War, when "the enemy" was supposed to be the Soviet Union, in most military excercises, happily into the 1980ies, "the military adversary" mostly approached from the North

So that the question in fact is a psychological issue to 90%. Strangely enough, also those "forgetters" when watching TV spend at least 70% of their TV-time watching GERMAN TV-programs, and they up to now at least are in Standard German. Those "forgetters" watch crime movies, broadcast in Standard German.

Very sorry but these "forgetters" to me not only are a bit strange, to me they are LIARS

Seen under that aspect, Kachelmann is a lucky guy.