You will in time

Don't worry, there is a huge grammar mistake in the alleged "joke" in French... and it's a national language here so the boomerang comes back to him.

But I still don't force people to speak anything, as long as no foreign language is forced on me. I react very positively to the foreign languages I know when not imposed on me. Is that childish?

so I guess a complete stranger would approach you in English, you would respond in something other than English, and the two of you would never communicate in a way that either would understand. I don't know if that would be childish or not, but it would seem a little silly.

You don't get it. I can't blame you, you said yourself it was a "guess".
Talk to me in the language of your choice in the street, but your level of politeness will determine mine, even if I speak your language and will answer in your language if approached politely.

Don't worry, I don't react good to impolite German speakers either.

AHhhhhh you tricked me.... he he ehe he

generally speaking, people don't react well to impolite people, period. regardless of which language they're being impolite in.

My point exactly. The debate about learning the language or not is partially overrun by this exact thought: even one is not aware of it, even if one has very good reasons not to speak the local language, even if one is a nice person... the impression one makes is the perception of the others. In other words, influencing this perception is, beyond language, the politeness.

Let's face it, what defines politeness is very different from place to place. But one can not hide from it. One WILL get judged. And I hear regularly very very negative comments about expats in Basel from people who I know for a fact vote for EU, Schengen, gay rights and other liberal topics. Perceived as impolite ruins it in the eyes of every body, because it is human to react to signs of respect, linguistically or not. You'd be surprised how talkative some people become when it comes to complain about expats' attitude. And one topic comes regularly again: expats are perceived as people thinking they are better than the other immigrants and allegedly don't feel concerned by the demands put on immigrants in general. That's a strong issue among locals but as soon as there is one foreigner in the room, they don't talk about it. One can argue that expats are indeed different from immigrants (no staying for long) but this argument is not taking place at all, there is no dialogue between the short term stayers and the locals... by definition. It's a shame really.

Learning the language is one step toward the goal of being perceived for the real nice guys we all are and function on the given premisses in local reality, but even when talking in English, one can do something. The woman in my example, the only one so far in six years, didn't do even that. Hence the spontaneous rejection from me... and I'm not even local so imagine...

Indeed - however in this case I just can't help it. LE twat arrogant - no 'e' as it is masculine Strangely enough a twat in French is also masculine, lol.

In Italian, it's feminine: "la patata" (literally, "the potato")

Tom

In the hope to make you guys feel better ! All the years i have been in Canada , I wanted the Canadian to speak swiss german to me ,but after 45 I give up

Speaking for myself ,I can give it to you in writing Front on ,if you want

We Canadian Sheet Metal guys do not call for help . Rap a old rag arond it go to hospital have it stitched together ,go back to work Hire a Canadian

im fass ha und buendig, which is why I posted earlier that if you want somebody to know, you have to be willing to teach. rather than immediately assume that every poor soul wandering around Switzerland speaking another language is "ignorant" or "arrogant", you might take a leap of faith and spend the extra 60 seconds to explain to those poor souls how to ask their question in your local language of choice. believe it or not, some of us gringos take this for granted (and not in an arrogant or ignorant manner), because we have tens of millions of folks living in our country who either speak our language very poorly or who speak our language with an accent that is damn near indecipherable. yes, we obviously have our share of rednecks and idjits, but I like to think they are the exception rather than the rule, just as I think they are in Switzerland.

there are certainly expats who are less than pleasant to be around, no question there. some of that is because there are unpleasant people everywhere, but maybe some of it is because expats tend to be parachuted in with little to no language or cultural training and little appreciation of just how different Switzerland is from their native country. I think you're totally right that it's a shame that there isn't more direct dialogue about the issue, but unfortunately many expats tend to have a particularly healthy ego and pride and many locals tend to be Minnesota-friendly.

My thoughts are that, if they want foreigners to learn an official Swiss language, then the German-speaking Swiss should also have to learn one.

if it's any consolation, I keep waiting for the Canadians to speak English.



I put 3 of those sarcastic smileys just so hopefully folks know I was joking. I love Canada, many of the best Friday and Saturdays nights of my life between the age of 19 and 21 were spent in Windsor.

ignorance means lack of knowledge, which is descriptive for the given fact.
arrogant is a word I did not use and made an explicit comment about the misuse of quotation marks when answering my messages.

Otherwise, absoluuuuuuuutly yes. (*insert smiley which means we agree but word it differently, if there is a such one*).

AKA Scots!

Really, 30 years ago I knew a Scot in ZH, and we spent a month speaking French as I couldn't understand his "English"!

(he spoke perfect French, learnt it from his girlfriend, which is how my Italian went from crap to reasonably good)

Tom

Yea I do know those strip clubs too ,spend some time working in Ford and Chrysler plants

I see, not only do we have to put up with arrogance, but we have to teach the so-called "poor souls" as well...lol

Back when, going to a strip club in Texas was part of the job interview!

(two different companies, both times strip clubs)

Tom