Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 14.02.2012, 20:09
Dantesheaven's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vaud
Posts: 270
Groaned at 9 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 329 Times in 134 Posts
Dantesheaven has a reputation beyond reputeDantesheaven has a reputation beyond reputeDantesheaven has a reputation beyond reputeDantesheaven has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
Maybe this make sense in some places, but in Romansh areas where the question is the survival of their language in the community, people DID and DO and WILL object... but they are rarely really asked.
On the top of that: when an area has a large German speaking minority, the chances of actually seeing objections followed by effects get smaller by each new home built.

You seem to believe that as long as you can pay people off, they should shut up. This in not what I read in the Romansh media. At all.
I can see where you might think that but no that's not my attitude.

Paying people off is bribery and that is just wrong. My point, which I will gladly recant if proven wrong, is that people received the income and gains from the construction of all of these houses, and are now saying they are being harmed by them when their perpetual income expectations are not met

If instead the local politicians profited but the local people were cheated or lied to in order to gain their support of the development, then that's a different story and my opinions would also be different.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 14.02.2012, 20:23
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,485
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,338 Times in 5,682 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
Not sure I follow the logic really.

If people want a second home & cannot buy it then they will rent it? So banning the purchasing of second homes will not change the situation?

If people really want to buy a second home then I suppose they could start a GMBH & use that to buy the home?

Not sure how this scheme would apply to foreigners? How would they ever know a foreigner had a first home - or do they plan to ban all sales to foreigners?
maybe they should also ban renting a second home.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 14.02.2012, 20:26
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,149
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,740 Times in 9,484 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
If people really want to buy a second home then I suppose they could start a GMBH & use that to buy the home?
No, doesn't work that way.

You could buy it, but be required to rent only to real residents.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 14.02.2012, 20:51
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,212
Groaned at 64 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post

Not sure how this scheme would apply to foreigners? How would they ever know a foreigner had a first home - or do they plan to ban all sales to foreigners?
Is the referendum about home purchases or home acquisition? Because I thought it was about acquisition, which doesn't necessarily limit it to home sales.

Quote:
View Post
In an alpine valley. But of course. That's where all the cheap food comes from innit
Yes... because everyone's second home is in an alpine valley.

...rich people's problems.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 14.02.2012, 21:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 210 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,404 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
I can see where you might think that but no that's not my attitude.

Paying people off is bribery and that is just wrong. My point, which I will gladly recant if proven wrong, is that people received the income and gains from the construction of all of these houses, and are now saying they are being harmed by them when their perpetual income expectations are not met

If instead the local politicians profited but the local people were cheated or lied to in order to gain their support of the development, then that's a different story and my opinions would also be different.
I give up. It doesn't happen like that, not even close. There is very good documentation about the situation in the alpine valley, I happen to know about the Engadin first hand but obviously, people know better here.
Fine by me.


I am fine with people having a second or third home. But believing that the locals get rich by it is just *****.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 14.02.2012, 22:05
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,782
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,097 Times in 6,294 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
maybe they should also ban renting a second home.
Cough cough, you own a home & have at least another rental property you sometimes live in, you were looking for a third?
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 14.02.2012, 22:17
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,711
Groaned at 173 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 2,485 Times in 804 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
Problem with such villages is that without adequate employment in the area then the houses would probably be empty anyway. People move to where the employment is & often the reason villages are 2nd home hot spots is because there are many homes available?
Hello, they build the properties because of the demand for vacation (2nd) homes. They would not have been built otherwise.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Karl for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 14.02.2012, 22:30
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,149
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,740 Times in 9,484 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
don't they have to pay tax on eigenmietwert?
To the town they LIVE in, not where the property is!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 14.02.2012, 22:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,408
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,412 Times in 10,086 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
Hello, they build the properties because of the demand for vacation (2nd) homes. They would not have been built otherwise.
Do you really think that most Russians or Saudis build chalets here to come on holiday?

It is not just about taxes btw, but about communities.

Does anybody get the point about lack of SPACE in CH compared to US


Many who have sold their land for a few chuffs to some property developer, who ripped them off, are no longer around. Those who are keen not to see their communities further destroyed are those who did NOT sell, because the life of their community does matter to them and their families, and the future of their families. From that point of view, it is NOT a rich peoples problem- but a problem about keeping communities alive - and keeping as much as the wonderful nature, wild fauna and flora for which Switzerland has always been famous (and so fast disappearing under concrete- one of the reason I live in the Jura mountains where this has not yet happen, and hopefully never will).

Last edited by Odile; 14.02.2012 at 23:18.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 14.02.2012, 22:58
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,485
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,338 Times in 5,682 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
To the town they LIVE in, not where the property is!

Tom
i doubt it.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 14.02.2012, 23:15
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,409
Groaned at 44 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,897 Times in 1,267 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
Yes... because everyone's second home is in an alpine valley.
No, but a number of alpine regions (mostly ski resorts, e.g. Oberengadin, Davos/Klosters, Zermatt) plus parts of Ticino are about the only areas in Switzerland where the percentage of second homes is actually high enough to cause problems.

That's the main reason why I think that the initiative is a bad idea. It tries to solve a local or regional problem with a national one-size-fits-all approach.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mark75 for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 14.02.2012, 23:24
quark's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Aargh-Ow!
Posts: 1,328
Groaned at 13 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,838 Times in 756 Posts
quark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
No, but a number of alpine regions (mostly ski resorts, e.g. Oberengadin, Davos/Klosters, Zermatt) plus parts of Ticino are about the only areas in Switzerland where the percentage of second homes is actually high enough to cause problems.

That's the main reason why I think that the initiative is a bad idea. It tries to solve a local or regional problem with a national one-size-fits-all approach.
It does seem a bit strange to have the same percentage for the whole country. Surely it would make sense for the quotas to be set according to need at a local level by referendum, or simply by the local authority (perhaps with an upper and lower restriction, e.g. between 5% and 30%). At least then it's directly in the hands of those it affects.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank quark for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 14.02.2012, 23:30
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,149
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,740 Times in 9,484 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
i doubt it.
No, all your taxes go to the town and canton you are registered in, even for property and other assets elsewhere (and of course a small amount to the Federation), but NOT to where your other property is located!.

What about this fact do you doubt?

Town
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 14.02.2012, 23:53
tom tulpe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Horgen
Posts: 1,192
Groaned at 23 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 1,409 Times in 646 Posts
tom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
i doubt it.
Go and read the law then.
Or the threads about living in Wollerau or similar tax havens
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:00
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,554 Times in 4,686 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
No, doesn't work that way.

You could buy it, but be required to rent only to real residents.

Tom
How do they define real residents?
For example my GMBH buys a place in Davos. My GMBH rents the house to my GF. The address of my GF is Davos; this house. So she is a real resident?
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:06
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,554 Times in 4,686 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
What's the difficulty?

You live there permanently and file income tax etc there. Then its your first home.

If you don't live there permanently and file income tax elsewhere, then its not your first home.

I don't see where being foreign or not makes a difference.

You could I guess just file income tax there for one month after buying the property and then transfer your residence elsewhere.
Not sure I understand your answer or maybe my question was crap

Suppose I am foreign and live in Germany

I want to buy a place in Davos

What does the location of where I pay income tax have to do with anything?

As a foreigner does the 2nd home proposal apply to me?
How will anybody know if I have a first home anywhere?
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:09
tom tulpe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Horgen
Posts: 1,192
Groaned at 23 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 1,409 Times in 646 Posts
tom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
Not sure I understand your answer or maybe my question was crap

Suppose I am foreign and live in Germany

I want to buy a place in Davos

What does the location of where I pay income tax have to do with anything?

As a foreigner does the 2nd home proposal apply to me?
How will anybody know if I have a first home anywhere?
If you don't register the Davos place as your (tax) residence, it's not your "main residence". It doesn't matter if it's the 2nd, 3rd or whatever home. Simples.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank tom tulpe for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 210 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,404 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Obviously, people in this discussion are unaware of the concept of Anmeldung, forgetting that one has to declare specifically Main Home and Secondary Homes in order to live somewhere in the first place. Foreign or Swiss, all in the same boat.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:19
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,554 Times in 4,686 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
Obviously, people in this discussion are unaware of the concept of Anmeldung, forgetting that one has to declare specifically Main Home and Secondary Homes in order to live somewhere in the first place. Foreign or Swiss, all in the same boat.
Naive.....
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:21
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,554 Times in 4,686 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: referendum on limiting second homes

Quote:
View Post
If you don't register the Davos place as your (tax) residence, it's not your "main residence". It doesn't matter if it's the 2nd, 3rd or whatever home. Simples.
As I understand the proposal it is about owning property.
So if I rent a place in, for example, Munich & want to buy a place in Davos then it is not a second home?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Don't forget to vote (incl. discussion on Naturalisation referendum) Phos Swiss politics/news 49 27.08.2012 08:27
New Health Insurance Referendum Assassin Swiss politics/news 29 29.12.2011 15:17
UPC Cablecom limiting internet speed mrlezbp TV/internet/telephone 7 02.06.2011 20:59
Bloody last second snipers on ebay... Treverus Complaints corner 33 12.04.2010 16:57
Referendum on father's rights, etc. Russkov Swiss politics/news 63 15.01.2009 19:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0