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  #81  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:21
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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Naive.....
Elaborate.... I am eager to learn. You claim to be smart, prove it.
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  #82  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:23
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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Elaborate.... I am eager to learn. You claim to be smart, prove it.
I claim to be smart?? Prove it?
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  #83  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:30
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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How do they define real residents?
For example my GMBH buys a place in Davos. My GMBH rents the house to my GF. The address of my GF is Davos; this house. So she is a real resident?
Only if she files her tax in Davos.

Why is that so difficult as a criterium?
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  #84  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:39
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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Only if she files her tax in Davos.

Why is that so difficult as a criterium?
She is renting not buying; the second home proposal is about buying; not renting
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  #85  
Old 15.02.2012, 00:57
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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She is renting not buying; the second home proposal is about buying; not renting
Where does this come from?

It could be you're right. But from my reading of the text there isn't a distinction between owners and tenants.
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  #86  
Old 15.02.2012, 02:17
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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No, all your taxes go to the town and canton you are registered in, even for property and other assets elsewhere (and of course a small amount to the Federation), but NOT to where your other property is located!.

What about this fact do you doubt?

Town
The veracity.
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  #87  
Old 15.02.2012, 02:21
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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Go and read the law then.
Or the threads about living in Wollerau or similar tax havens
I am talking about income from property in another canton, not general income. I could be wrong, but I assume property would be taxed in the canton on which it is located.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 15.02.2012 at 02:32.
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  #88  
Old 15.02.2012, 09:23
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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I am talking about income from property in another canton, not general income. I could be wrong, but I assume property would be taxed in the canton on which it is located.
No, you are only taxed in one place, even if you have income or property in multiple cantons.

Tom
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  #89  
Old 15.02.2012, 09:33
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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No, you are only taxed in one place, even if you have income or property in multiple cantons.

Tom
If the places where people had second homes were low lax areas, most of the owners would claim to live therr & the community would have a huge tax income. Verbier benefits by having rather a lot of residents with B permits paying taxes, however they are funny folk who sit at home most evenings in the dark!
VS has the highest no of pauchal taxpayers in CH, ZH does not accept them anymore because it's not 'fair'
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  #90  
Old 15.02.2012, 09:48
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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She is renting not buying; the second home proposal is about buying; not renting
The text of initiative does not distinguish between owning and renting.

As with most initiatives there's some uncertainty to it, because the initiative sets some basic rules on a high level, but the parliament will have to work out the details and decide on an actual law if the initiative is approved.
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  #91  
Old 15.02.2012, 10:00
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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No, you are only taxed in one place, even if you have income or property in multiple cantons.

Tom
Indeed.

However there is a cross-kantonal exchange - IE the tax due on the eigenmietwert will go to the kanton of the property.

It is also important to remember that within each kanton there is a community pot - the rich communities pay in - the poor ones take out. Winterthur, for example, takes out as much as Kusnacht puts into the Zurich pot.

This also happens at the Kanton level - with poor kantons supported by the rich ones. Anyway that is a different discussion.

Non-residents pay a tourist tax, and in theory should keep a book saying who stayed and when. Some also allow you to pay an annual charge.

You'll be hard pushed to find a "fair" way of taxing second properties.
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  #92  
Old 15.02.2012, 10:24
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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Naive.....
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As I understand the proposal it is about owning property.
So if I rent a place in, for example, Munich & want to buy a place in Davos then it is not a second home?
It's about owning a property that is not your main residence. If you buy a place in Davos where you do not register yourself as a tax resident, it's not your main residence.
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  #93  
Old 15.02.2012, 10:52
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

I'm kind of split on this one. I believe in the free market economy, so I'm against the state dictating what we can do with our income, yet I genuinely feel that the green patches in this fair land are disappearing at an alarming rate and making way for cranes and construction sites. The great outdoors is what makes Switzerland the best place in the world to live with my interests. I'd hate it to be urbanized to oblivion.
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  #94  
Old 15.02.2012, 11:28
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

I am never sure about this argument. I used to live in a ski resort (davos) , bought an appartment, now moved away for work reasons.

Ski resorts by there very nature have a very large transient population as the lifts / bars/ hotels generally don't need year round workers. These workers have to live somewhere though.

Tourists Make up a large % of the Winter population, possible the peak summer population. Even a large town like Davos feels empty and dead in May and November.

Take away the 2nd home owners, who only buy because of the tourist area, and the transient population who are also there for the same reasons, and basically you have small resident populations. The problems with Schools would still exist none the less, Take the toursit indsutry away from a lot of ski resorts and most (not all) would struggle to support a community larger than a village, not to mention the loss of income... then it's also only natural that many of us would love to live in a Ski resort, but find it next to impossible to find a good year round, open ended contract there....

Also, as a home owner in Davos, I can honestly the Gemeinder does quite nicely out of me thank you very much.

The better solution for Ski areas would be to enofrce that second home owners must rent thier appartment out for x number of days/weeks per year AND the owner must be resident there for x number of days/weeks per year.



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we live in a ski resort, and the 2nd home / holiday home owners have literally destroyed the place, most houses are empty the majority of the time, the village school is almost empty and the secondary school has to have multiple years in the same class just to meet the minimum class size.

The gemeinde gets very little tax and everyone suffers, instead of limiting peoples ability to buy a 2nd home, maybe they should just double tax people instead, that would make people think (unless its rented out of course)

the same situation happened in my parents village in the uk, that was in a 2nd home hot spot and the village died, the local pubs shut as they only had trade 1 or 2 days a week, the local shops shut etc and during the week the place was a ghost village.
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  #95  
Old 15.02.2012, 13:46
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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The text of initiative does not distinguish between owning and renting.

As with most initiatives there's some uncertainty to it, because the initiative sets some basic rules on a high level, but the parliament will have to work out the details and decide on an actual law if the initiative is approved.
According to post 9 it is only about owning not renting.
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  #96  
Old 16.02.2012, 19:14
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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Indeed.

However there is a cross-kantonal exchange - IE the tax due on the eigenmietwert will go to the kanton of the property.
yes. i imagine you could either file a separate filing with each canton, or file in your canton of residence and they will collect the tax on behalf of the canton where the property is located.

either way, i would think that it is taxed in the canton where the property is located.
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  #97  
Old 16.02.2012, 19:18
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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To the town they LIVE in, not where the property is!

Tom
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No, all your taxes go to the town and canton you are registered in, even for property and other assets elsewhere (and of course a small amount to the Federation), but NOT to where your other property is located!.

What about this fact do you doubt?

Town
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Go and read the law then.
Or the threads about living in Wollerau or similar tax havens
actually, it seems this question was already asked and answered in 2009:

Tax implications of owning a holiday property?

tl;dr? summary: i'm right, you're wrong.
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Old 16.02.2012, 20:11
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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actually, it seems this question was already asked and answered in 2009:

Tax implications of owning a holiday property?

tl;dr? summary: i'm right, you're wrong.
Thanks for the reminder, Phil.

I never did buy that property... got pipped to the post by a developer. Who put up a gaggle of ugly concrete box holiday McMansions.

Me, I was eager for the traditional village life. I would have kept it as a working farm - albeit one supported by my husband's day job for the first years. But that wasn't what the Gemeinde/cantonal Whateveramt wanted - no, they wanted the holiday homes, they wanted the community to grow - so the developer got the nod.

As ye sew...
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Old 16.02.2012, 21:25
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes

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Thanks for the reminder, Phil.

I never did buy that property... got pipped to the post by a developer. Who put up a gaggle of ugly concrete box holiday McMansions.

Me, I was eager for the traditional village life. I would have kept it as a working farm - albeit one supported by my husband's day job for the first years. But that wasn't what the Gemeinde/cantonal Whateveramt wanted - no, they wanted the holiday homes, they wanted the community to grow - so the developer got the nod.

As ye sew...
As ye sew....?

Sow?

Sow as in later - reap?
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Old 16.02.2012, 23:51
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Re: referendum on limiting second homes



Oops.

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