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  #21  
Old 03.04.2012, 16:34
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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I saw a TV report a few weeks back where the German customs' were checking people travelling back from the direction of Switzerland (via Austria). They nabbed a guy in a S-cladd Mercedes who apparently had not been in CH. Unfortunately for him, they found his Swiss bank statements in the car, going back for the past 8 years. As the story came out, he wanted to also do a "Selbstanzeige" and needed the documentation in order to do this properly.

Unfortunately for him the "Zoll" told him that for a "Selbstanzeige" it was already too late because they nabbed him before he had declared this. What a bummer! So now he is nicked for tax evasion
Firstly, he was stupid for even bringing such documents into Germany.

Secondly, he was even more stupid for telling them that. To be able to prove anything, the customs officials would have had to phone the Finanzamt to verify that these accounts had not been declared, and I doubt that the Finanzamt anwers such queries over the telephone, not even to customs agents. I doubt that the Finanzamt can even access such data in real time. I know from my relatives in Germany that they take months if not years to respond to the simplest of questions, and then still get them wrong. So they would even have had to let the guy go, or confiscated those statements and he would still have had time to do a Selbstanzeige and have it on the desk of the Finanzamt before the customs got their act together.

And summing up, remember a lot of what you see on TV is set up, often with the intent of scaring people. Quite possibly the guy was an actor doing his job. Do you think he would have signed a moel release to allow footage of him to be put on TV to see for everybody to smirk over if he'd really just been caught in a serious way?

And finally, I've personally transferred heaps of documents and papers over the border over the years. I've had customs guys look at all sorts of stuff but never my paperwork. They'd probably be too thick to see a bank statment if they saw one.
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  #22  
Old 03.04.2012, 16:49
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

I agree that a lot of them may be perhaps a bit thick but this documentary was very believable. The guy that they caught was a bit of a berk. He first denied coming back from Switzerland but when they checked his wallet they found a Migros receipt from the previous day. That's when they took his car apart and found the bank statements under his floor mat - very suspicious. Well obviously they can't do him on the spot for tax evasion but you can be sure that they would follow up on it. Saying that you wanted to report yourself in the situation doesn't cut any slack with the customs.

Yes I know that they are out to scare people with these programs... like I already stated, the German (mainstream) media is in the pocket of the government
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Old 03.04.2012, 16:51
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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I agree that a lot of them may be perhaps a bit thick but this documentary was very believable. The guy that they caught was a bit of a berk. He first denied coming back from Switzerland but when they checked his wallet they found a Migros receipt from the previous day. That's when they took his car apart and found the bank statements under his floor mat - very suspicious. Well obviously they can't do him on the spot for tax evasion but you can be sure that they would follow up on it. Saying that you wanted to report yourself in the situation doesn't cut any slack with the customs.

Yes I know that they are out to scare people with these programs... like I already stated, the German (mainstream) media is in the pocket of the government
Seems he was also too thick to use electronic banking....
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  #24  
Old 03.04.2012, 17:05
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Seems he was also too thick to use electronic banking....
Yup, fiscal darwinism
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  #25  
Old 03.04.2012, 17:19
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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I saw a TV report [...]They nabbed a guy in a S-cladd Mercedes who apparently had not been in CH.
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they checked his wallet they found a Migros receipt from the previous day.
Right, because a guy who drives a S-class and visits his private banker for lunch also shops for groceries at the Migros
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  #26  
Old 03.04.2012, 17:29
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Right, because a guy who drives a S-class and visits his private banker for lunch also shops for groceries at the Migros
Maybe he needed a packet of fags (note: for US citizens here I mean cigarettes)
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  #27  
Old 03.04.2012, 18:07
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Maybe he needed a packet of fags (note: for US citizens here I mean cigarettes)
I need a new keyboard. The very idea of homosexuals in a packet is just so ... unexpected!
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  #28  
Old 03.04.2012, 18:12
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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I need a new keyboard. The very idea of homosexuals in a packet is just so ... unexpected!
I thought that I would be understood - that's why I immediately made myself clear

Funny how there can be such differences in the use of English...
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  #29  
Old 03.04.2012, 18:18
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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I thought that I would be understood - that's why I immediately made myself clear

Funny how there can be such differences in the use of English...
It was the clarification that put the image in my head!

I spent 22 years in the UK - but it was only when you associated the word with the US term that my brain went all funny on me. I've seen "fag" discussed in both contexts, but I have never (until today) thought of the American "fag" neatly rolled into a handy-sized little box with a smokers' warning on the side.
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  #30  
Old 03.04.2012, 19:17
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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If the evidence was obtained in a legal way pertaining to German law, its admissible. Just because what happened turns out to be illegal in in Switzerland (as far as I remember pertaining to the banking secrecy laws, which don't matter in Germany) it doesn't mean its illegal in Germany and hence it might be admissible.

Also, little known fact - even if the evidence itself was not admissible it still can be used as a lead in an investigation that turns out legally admissible evidence later. So, a LOT of German tax evaders turned themselves in in order to avoid harder punishment when actually getting cought later.
Whatever it may be in Germany, in Switzerland is what they did clearly a criminal offense. If they for whatever reason arrive in Switzerland, they will get arrested and brought to court. Regardlesss of whether their material is used by the German judiciary or not. As the views of the German judiciary does not count in Switzerland.
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  #31  
Old 03.04.2012, 19:22
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Whatever it may be in Germany, in Switzerland is what they did clearly a criminal offense. If they for whatever reason arrive in Switzerland, they will get arrested and brought to court. Regardlesss of whether their material is used by the German judiciary or not. As the views of the German judiciary does not count in Switzerland.
And very right the Swiss are too to do so! The Germans have strict definitions of law but very often only apply them as they see fit (if it's advantageous for the government to do so)
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  #32  
Old 03.04.2012, 19:30
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Here's a further development.

I apologise for the German article... basically what it says is that the Credit Suisse has now forbidden any work-related travel of their staff to Germany. It doesn't state what exactly the reason is but quotes a statement that the bank is rigorous in verifying that their staff are appropriately experienced, trained and knowledgeable in the country-specific regulations before allowing them to travel. Just a further escalation. The saga continues...
I mean, whomever works in banking in Switzerland, for the time being better abstains from visiting Germany. And enroute between Zürich and Schaffhausen better travels via Winterthur. If you are in banking here, better shift your € shopping to France and Austria ! At least for a while

As the Zürich correspondent of "Die Zeit" says, the whole thing will normalize once the elections in some German states are over in a month time
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  #33  
Old 05.04.2012, 11:32
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

ok....I just hate politics as well as politiciens. I just want to say that all the politiciens are corrupt. They should shot at sight.
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  #34  
Old 05.04.2012, 11:33
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Whatever it may be in Germany, in Switzerland is what they did clearly a criminal offense. If they for whatever reason arrive in Switzerland, they will get arrested and brought to court. Regardlesss of whether their material is used by the German judiciary or not. As the views of the German judiciary does not count in Switzerland.
Has the arrest warant actually been issued?

Or is it just posturing?
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  #35  
Old 05.04.2012, 15:12
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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ok....I just hate politics as well as politiciens. I just want to say that all the politiciens are corrupt. They should shot at sight.
A well reflected intro.

Are you some sort of a philosopher?

And welcome to the EF.
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  #36  
Old 05.04.2012, 22:01
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Has the arrest warant actually been issued?

Or is it just posturing?
The arrest warrant HAS been issued really. BUT
A) if they want to visit Switzerland they can enter freely as inside Schengen
B) they are not "wanted" by police really
-
C) to say it in German "man schlägt den Sack und meint den Esel", which means that the warrant is against those rather minor officials but is meant as a wink to the top brass of Federal Republic of Germany politics
C2) it is interesting to see that Baden-Württemberger Mr Schäuble very well understood it, just as most other Baden-Württemberger. Add to this that most Baden-Württemberger in case of doubt prefer Switzerland and the Swiss heavily over Nordrhein-Westfalen and those NRWers
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Old 05.04.2012, 22:03
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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A well reflected intro.
.
The translation of your remark into German would be :

Wirklich sehr geistreich !
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  #38  
Old 06.04.2012, 03:48
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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The translation of your remark into German would be :

Wirklich sehr geistreich !
oder "gut überlegte Einleitung"
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  #39  
Old 06.04.2012, 22:03
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

Switzerland is a signatory of the Council of Europe Convention on Extradition (Council of Europe, not European Union) so I assume they could apply for these three officials to be extradited to Switzerland if they wanted to.
Signatories to this Convention do not need to provide prima facie evidence.
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  #40  
Old 06.04.2012, 23:52
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Re: Swiss arrest order against German banking spies

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Switzerland is a signatory of the Council of Europe Convention on Extradition (Council of Europe, not European Union) so I assume they could apply for these three officials to be extradited to Switzerland if they wanted to.
Signatories to this Convention do not need to provide prima facie evidence.
As Switzerland by constitution NEVER EVER will extradite a Swiss citizen to any country for any reason under any circumstances, Switzerland will never ask another country to do what Switzerland will never do
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