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  #121  
Old 22.04.2012, 11:13
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

I find it very interesting that you feel the need to justify yourself. I never said Sarkozy wasn't French either. Take a moment to think about it.
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  #122  
Old 22.04.2012, 11:24
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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The Swiss population increased from around 6 Million to over 8 Million in the last 20 years.
You're exaggerating quite a bit here. I looked up the official numbers on www.bfs.admin.ch.

population end of 1990: 6.751 million
population end of 2010: 7.864 million

overall increase over 20 years: 1.113 million or 16.49%
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  #123  
Old 22.04.2012, 12:29
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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Not sure where you got that from - the numbers contradict everything that went through the media in the last couple of days (including Sommaruga's numbers, btw.).
The table (copy attached) came from the official Swiss source the Bundesamt für Statistik, link is http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...key/01/01.html

I am not surprised the numbers contradict what went through the media.

I do not see how you can say the table contradicts Sommaruga's numbers when she gave an average over many more years.
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  #124  
Old 22.04.2012, 12:32
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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Not sure where you got that from - the numbers contradict everything that went through the media in the last couple of days (including Sommaruga's numbers, btw.).
What you describe as "contradict" simply is the result that statistics depend on criteria, time-frame and presentation. The statistics in 2010 /11 showed a tremendous increase of Kosovari, which however simply was the result of the independence of Kosovo and Kosovari-Serbs "changing" from being Serbs to being Kosovari, and the statistical share of "Serbs" declining accordingly. The statistical share of Italians over the past 3 decades declined heavily, which however was the result of many Italians becoming CH citizens (many with double citizenship).

Just look at the languages as shown here

Wohnbevölkerung nach Hauptsprache(in Tausend)19902000Total6873.77288Deutsch4374.74640.4 Französisch1321.71485.1Italienisch524.1471Rätoroma nisch39.635.1Spanisch116.877.5Serbisch und Kroatisch109111.4Übrige slawische Sprachen18.623.3Portugiesisch93.889.5Türkische Sprachen61.344.5Englisch60.873.4Albanisch35.994.9Ü brige Sprachen117.4142
Here you cannot separate Swiss on one side and Italians, French and Germans. You however can see that English is clearly beaten by Albanian and Portuguese, but only narrowly by Spanish. However, 74 to 471 by Italian

It is interesting to look at religions + denominations

Wohnbevölkerung nach Religion


in Tausend 198019902000Total 6366.06873.77288.0 Protestantisch2865.72798.02569.1 Römisch-katholisch3030.13172.33047.9 Christ-katholisch16.611.713.3 Christlich-orthodox37.271.5131.9 Andere christliche Gemeinschaften18.98.314.4 Jüdische Gemeinschaften18.317.617.9 Islamische Gemeinschaften56.6152.2310.8 Andere Kirchen und Religionsgemeinschaften11.829.257.1 Keine Zugehörigkeit241.6510.9809.8 Ohne Angaben69.1101.9315.8
the Protestant community which in 1960 still was the majority is, due to the Italian-Portuguese-French-Croatian immigration now "beaten" by the Roman Catholics, who however, due to the Muslims and Greek Orthodox and others has not become the majority.

In contrast to the propaganda of the Blocherites, 311'000 is not exactly a sign of "Islamisation of Switzerland" ... even if it is regrettable that the 2010 figures do not appear

Amazing however to see

Wohnbevölkerung nach religiöser Zugehörigkeit (in %)[4]
1970 2000 Evangelisch-reformierte Kirche 46,42 33,04 Evangelisch-methodistische Kirche 0,17 0,12 Neuapostolische Kirche 0,49 0,38 Zeugen Jehovas 0,17 0,28 Übrige protestantische Kirchen und Gemeinschaften 0,42 1,44 Römisch-katholische Kirche 49,39 41,82 Christkatholische Kirche 0,32 0,18 Christlich-orthodoxe Kirchen 0,33 1,81 Andere christliche Gemeinschaften 0,05 0,20 Jüdische Glaubensgemeinschaft 0,33 0,25 Islamische Gemeinschaften 0,26 4,26 Andere Kirchen und Religionsgemeinschaften 0,12 0,78 Keine Zugehörigkeit 1,14 11,11 Ohne Angabe 0,39 4,33 Gesamtbevölkerung (100 %) 6'269'783 7'288'010
that the Roman-Catholics in 1970 were very close to getting an absolute majority but then had a decline of their share
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  #125  
Old 22.04.2012, 12:39
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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yes, 10% is not "half of the population". 50% is. It's 49% in the town I live in right now. I never said that this is the Swiss average - although that probably will approach this percentage within 10 years or so, should immigration not be better controlled.

Anyway - I fail to see the point in continuing to discuss this - we can do so again after the vote on the freedom of movement towards the end of next year.

It is above 60% in our town here and in this particular part above 70%, but lots of foreigners in the next few years will become CH-citizens. Even the parents in many cases use German as their main language and for their children, German is THE language. I remember a few days ago getting down the stairs and hearing some chaps speaking "Bodeschtändigs Schwiizertüütsch" and when getting to the door, there were three Black teenagers there. They ARE Swiss, even if possibly not yet CH citizens.

Immigration is tightly controlled. What you refer to is "more restrictions and limitations".
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  #126  
Old 22.04.2012, 18:05
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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Yeah, maybe in an ideal world working according to a master plan, in reality I don't think Spaniards or even the Greeks will ever come here to take up jobs in agriculture, as they heavily import themselves workers for the same type of jobs.

Btw, last time when I passed by a farm the only language I heard, apart from Swiss German of course, was..Polish.
Yes, outside of the fact that the number of Poles here hardly even comes up in any stats, it is such a pleasure to read news where Poles are nothing more than farm help. Today's NZZ am Sonntag is a great example. Great image portrayed here. It's tiring enough to have to explain to "well travelled and read" Swiss that Poland has electricity and no there are no Polar bears roaming the streets.
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  #127  
Old 22.04.2012, 18:37
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

Maybe the next time there will be press conference related to that topic I will print a T-Shirt and try to be the attention whore. I believe a T-Shirt with the print "I was born in Poland. I live and work here in Switzerland. I am not a farm help. I am integrated so well that I dont get out of the bed for less than 240k Fränkli per year" will be even less popular than farm help
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  #128  
Old 22.04.2012, 18:38
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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Yes, outside of the fact that the number of Poles here hardly even comes up in any stats, it is such a pleasure to read news where Poles are nothing more than farm help. Today's NZZ am Sonntag is a great example. Great image portrayed here. It's tiring enough to have to explain to "well travelled and read" Swiss that Poland has electricity and no there are no Polar bears roaming the streets.
Yeah, those hordes of Pole roaming Switzerland . There are 3000 Poles officialy registered in Zurich. Drop in the bucket.
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  #129  
Old 22.04.2012, 19:00
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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Yes, outside of the fact that the number of Poles here hardly even comes up in any stats, it is such a pleasure to read news where Poles are nothing more than farm help. Today's NZZ am Sonntag is a great example. Great image portrayed here. It's tiring enough to have to explain to "well travelled and read" Swiss that Poland has electricity and no there are no Polar bears roaming the streets.
-
What a pity. I might have planned a short holiday i Poland to take photos of some nice Polar Bears in the streets
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  #130  
Old 22.04.2012, 19:04
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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What a pity. I might have planned a short holiday i Poland to take photos of some nice Polar Bears in the streets
Dont forget people riding donkeys to work - of course all work on a farm. Other people are busy selling candles in their shops made of cartonage, as of today, there is no electricity Last time we tried to call family abroad while being on vacation there we made a big fire in my grandmothers garden and all the family members had to blow the smoke real hard so it hopefully reaches family members in West Germany
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  #131  
Old 22.04.2012, 19:26
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

Ok ok easy you two now
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  #132  
Old 22.04.2012, 21:39
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Don't know for sure, but I imagine that it may be as it was even for EU folk before the 2004 agreements, which meant that you had to find a job first and get your prospective new employer to sponsor your application. It wasn't difficult, provided the employer could justify employing a foreigner instead of a Swiss. In most cases they simply had to show that they'd advertised and failed to fill the position here.
Not so easy in practice though

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Dont forget people riding donkeys to work - of course all work on a farm. Other people are busy selling candles in their shops made of cartonage, as of today, there is no electricity Last time we tried to call family abroad while being on vacation there we made a big fire in my grandmothers garden and all the family members had to blow the smoke real hard so it hopefully reaches family members in West Germany
So what does that make you, part Navajo too?

Last edited by jrspet; 22.04.2012 at 21:41. Reason: Merging of successive posts
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  #133  
Old 22.04.2012, 22:05
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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It's tiring enough to have to explain to "well travelled and read" Swiss that Poland has electricity and no there are no Polar bears roaming the streets.
"Well travelled and read" means travelling to Appenzell and reading Blick am Abend?
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  #134  
Old 23.04.2012, 05:15
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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Yes, outside of the fact that the number of Poles here hardly even comes up in any stats, it is such a pleasure to read news where Poles are nothing more than farm help. Today's NZZ am Sonntag is a great example. Great image portrayed here. It's tiring enough to have to explain to "well travelled and read" Swiss that Poland has electricity and no there are no Polar bears roaming the streets.
I understand the electricity part...but you have actually had to tell people there were no Polar Bears in Poland? Got any Poles there?
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  #135  
Old 23.04.2012, 06:32
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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...While the "industry-wing" does not need the East Europeans...
...not sure Peter Spuhler agrees

there are lacking "qualified" workmanship everywhere and you can solve it through:

1. outsourcing
2. immigration
3. convince all the housewives to start working (yes I know being a housewife is also a lot of work, but it's doable, it "works" in sweden ...)
4. bring home the 700'000 swiss living abroad
5. convince the companies that growing is bad, i.e. don't expand

and still SVP has not suggested NONE if these measures...so as long as they don't they can not be taken serious...
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  #136  
Old 23.04.2012, 07:16
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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3. convince all the housewives to start working
Well, considering the way healthcare costs and rents have developed in Switzerland over the last couple of years, most women my age work already. I can't think of a single family I know who has the luxury of having one partner take care of the household 100%.

It'll be a tough sell to integrate the 45+ generation into the workforce again, though.
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  #137  
Old 23.04.2012, 08:04
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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...not sure Peter Spuhler agrees

there are lacking "qualified" workmanship everywhere and you can solve it through:

1. outsourcing
2. immigration
3. convince all the housewives to start working (yes I know being a housewife is also a lot of work, but it's doable, it "works" in sweden ...)
4. bring home the 700'000 swiss living abroad
5. convince the companies that growing is bad, i.e. don't expand

and still SVP has not suggested NONE if these measures...so as long as they don't they can not be taken serious...
6. Abolish tax deals for international firms
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  #138  
Old 23.04.2012, 08:52
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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I can't think of a single family I know who has the luxury of having one partner take care of the household 100%.
Yet that's how it works for me, and pretty much every family I know!

Tom
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  #139  
Old 23.04.2012, 09:13
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

I know exactly three not working women. Everybody else works at least 50%. As others said before a family can hardly exist on a single income.
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  #140  
Old 23.04.2012, 10:23
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Re: CH to impose quotas from 8 EU countries

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The table (copy attached) came from the official Swiss source the Bundesamt für Statistik, link is http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...key/01/01.html

I am not surprised the numbers contradict what went through the media.

I do not see how you can say the table contradicts Sommaruga's numbers when she gave an average over many more years.
Is answering your own emails the first sign of madness

I just noticed in this table that since signing the bi-lateral agreements the number of EU people increased by around 20% for the period 2006-2010 whereas the non_EU people increased by nearly 25%.
Quite the reverse of what I expected.
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