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Old 08.11.2012, 22:13
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Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Highly qualified workers from other countries, especially Turkey, southeast Europe and Portugal, often face workplace discrimination in Switzerland, says a study from the Federal Commission Against Racism (FCR).



http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Qualified_immigrants_face_job_discrimination.html? cid=33918926
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Old 08.11.2012, 22:55
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Highly qualified workers from other countries, especially Turkey, southeast Europe and Portugal, often face workplace discrimination in Switzerland, says a study from the Federal Commission Against Racism (FCR).



http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Qualified_immigrants_face_job_discrimination.html? cid=33918926

I heard this on DSR3 today. The report talked about it, but mentioned that it "wasn't racism".

Same thing happens in New Zealand too - loads of very highly qualified people come to work, and then won't even have their CVs read because they have Indian or Chinese names.
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Old 08.11.2012, 23:03
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Stop the bullshit, my boyfriend works in a big multinational company. His boss and 50% of the employees are from India. The project manager is from Croatia.
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Old 08.11.2012, 23:19
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Stop the bullshit, my boyfriend works in a big multinational company. His boss and 50% of the employees are from India. The project manager is from Croatia.
Of course, because a wide reaching study of many aspects of Swiss employment cannot stand up to one person you know working for one company.

In my case I was partly hired because I am a native English speaker, so being foreign was a help, but overall I will take research over hearsay any day.
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Old 08.11.2012, 23:30
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Of course, because a wide reaching study of many aspects of Swiss employment cannot stand up to one person you know working for one company.

In my case I was partly hired because I am a native English speaker, so being foreign was a help, but overall I will take research over hearsay any day.
I'm not basing myself on one company only. Yesterday for example, I had a job interview in a big company, the recruiter was from hungary and my potential future boss was from argentina. When I was walking through the company I also noticed a lot of indian guys working on computers. I can't stand this behaviour, always laying the responsibility on racism and whining about everything, that's total bullshit. Maybe their german level was not high enough, maybe other candidates were more qualified, maybe their personnality didn't fit with the company's standards. These people really need to start doing some soul-searching.
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Old 09.11.2012, 00:11
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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I'm not basing myself on one company only. Yesterday for example, I had a job interview in a big company, the recruiter was from hungary and my potential future boss was from argentina. When I was walking through the company I also noticed a lot of indian guys working on computers. I can't stand this behaviour, always laying the responsibility on racism and whining about everything, that's total bullshit. Maybe their german level was not high enough, maybe other candidates were more qualified, maybe their personnality didn't fit with the company's standards. These people really need to start doing some soul-searching.

What if the part of their personality that didn't fit was the fact that they were foreign? Or at the very least not white? It happens.

I imagine that complaints of race based discrimination happen enough in Switzerland that there is actually an organisation called the "Federal Commission Against Racism" (Eidgenossenschaft Kommission gegen Rassismus) that is part of the overarching Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft.

As I said, it isn't unique here - a recent study from my home country of New Zealand has proven that a person will often be judged based on their name alone when submitting identical job applications where the only change is the name of the applicant from their birth name to a common white Kiwi name. It is common enough over there that foreign immigrants feel obliged to change their name to something "western".

I wouldn't be so quick to call bullshit on the racism side.
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Old 09.11.2012, 01:14
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Of course, because a wide reaching study of many aspects of Swiss employment cannot stand up to one person you know working for one company.

In my case I was partly hired because I am a native English speaker, so being foreign was a help, but overall I will take research over hearsay any day.
Correct in a way, but the example picked by SFDRS (Swiss TV) was not convincing at all. A Turkish woman who had studied German in a Turkish university and speaks it indeed excellently and who has done two doctorates, is now trying to get a job in Switzerland, while still being in Turkey. And is surprised that people already in Switzerland get preference. Let's add that her qualifications look to be heavily on the theoretical side. She is academically and intellectually rather over-qualified, but a doubtful option in a practical way.

However, the study shows that people from Northern/Northwestern Europe and North America tend to get preference over applicants from the Mediterranean or Africa/Asia if the qualifications are the same. It is not racism really, but discrimination it clearly is.

Some of such "applicants" like the above mentioned Turkish woman should however realize that Swiss companies are NOT looking for people abroad because there were NO locals around but for the simple reason that there are NOT ENOUGH locals around. The problem in Switzerland and other European countries is that the "Babyboomers" born between 1946 and 1960 started to go into retirement last year and will be out of the workforce by 2025, and only partially replaced by the "antibabypill-generation" members of post 1960.

This is the reason why the report was done. The whole matter has to be put onto a serious and acceptable basis.
Anti-Asian
Anti-African
Anti-Arab
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Old 09.11.2012, 01:23
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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I'm not basing myself on one company only. Yesterday for example, I had a job interview in a big company, the recruiter was from hungary and my potential future boss was from argentina. When I was walking through the company I also noticed a lot of indian guys working on computers. I can't stand this behaviour, always laying the responsibility on racism and whining about everything, that's total bullshit. Maybe their german level was not high enough, maybe other candidates were more qualified, maybe their personnality didn't fit with the company's standards. These people really need to start doing some soul-searching.
The study means, whether correct or not, that the realities show that overall, a certain discrimination IS there. What you write is more or less what I think as well, to some extent.

Many other Europeans may be more realistic about what the problem of Switzerland is than people in Turkey or farther east who may believe that there simply are only morons locally available.
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Old 09.11.2012, 03:29
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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When I was walking through the company I also noticed a lot of indian guys working on computers.
Did you actually read the report or at least understand what it is about? discrimination does not mean that there are no foreigers getting jobs - that's quite obviously not the case as there are thousands on this forum alone. It means that those Indians you see are likely to not be treated the same and typically worse than the locals.
Are you seriously believing this is not the case? I have lived in a couple of countries by now and came to the conclusion that to some extent it is human nature to be a bit xenophobic. But in some countries it is more accepted and institutionalized than in others.
In Switzerland is it pretty apparent that there is a gap in pay between males and females. I can discuss some part away with differences in skillset or whatever, but the statistical data is simply too clear.
Before Schengen was the same easily true for foreigners - there was a lot of statistical data freely available directly from the government. It was clear that foreigners were paid worse than locals. The Statistische Bundesamt offered data that could be even broken down to individual professions... and since it was based on tax data is it not some survey but 100% correct. The best correlation was using the permit type - I could demonstrate that a foreigners pay was worst when he arrived and got closer to a local one the longer he staid. L-, B- and C-permits made a nice curve towards the level of local salaries.

THere has also been very simple quantitative research on the topic: You sent out two applications for job openings - one with a very Swiss profile and one with an equally qualified but foreign looking profile. Repeat a hundred times. Then you measure who gets invited for how many intervies...

So if you want to add personal experiences: I once had an intern. I can tell you that it is really frustrating for a teenager when he sees that all his classmates find internships easily while he, raised in Switzerland with the exact same education, has to write three times the applications cause his name ends on -ic.
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Old 09.11.2012, 07:29
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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my boyfriend works in a big multinational company
...and so proud you must be! And of course at multinational companies you will not experience any major discrimination... ...Switzerland is build up on KMUs not on companies like ABB, Novartis etc

---and welcome to EF
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Old 09.11.2012, 08:15
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Is this actually a surprise where a local custom is to include a picture, your civil status, birthday, and sometimes even more personal information on your CV? Or job descriptions that state they are looking for a certain sex or specific age range?

Of course there is discrimination!
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Old 09.11.2012, 08:21
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

A classic case of a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

From my experience it's the fools who think they know everything and it's the highly intelligent types who acknowledge that there is still so much to learn...on any topic. And any conclusion is only as good as the data to which it is based on.



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Old 09.11.2012, 08:41
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Stop the bullshit, my boyfriend works in a big multinational company. His boss and 50% of the employees are from India. The project manager is from Croatia.
ü

LOL ha ha ha
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Old 09.11.2012, 08:57
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

I agree that racism is everywhere, even in Switzerland. But Switzerland is a very tolerant country and foreigners are very welcomed in the swiss companies. Do you mean I'm racist when you say "What if the part of their personality that didn't fit was the fact that they were foreign? Or at the very least not white? It happens." In fact, my boyfriend also comes from a third country, is pretty tanned and has a weird name but was welcomed very warmly by his company and his treated exactly like the swiss employees. In fact, his company his very multicultural and every ethnicity is respected and very welcomed and I'm sure it's not the only one as I'm people here ofter come back home for lunch and I can see a lot of foreigners with big companies badges hanging off their pockets. Its not because you are not hired in a company that you need to start accusing them of racism, just have a reality check.


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What if the part of their personality that didn't fit was the fact that they were foreign? Or at the very least not white? It happens.

I wouldn't be so quick to call bullshit on the racism side.
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Old 09.11.2012, 09:04
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Yes I really believe it's not the case as I have the living proof in my boyfriend's company. The foreigners, including Indians, colombians, croatians... are treated exactly the same as the swiss employeed. They have the same salaries are the swiss employees according to their qualifications, they have company fun days every 2-3 months, they have high positions, as I said before, my bf's boss is Indian and doesn't really look discriminated. People who are not hired in companies are simply not qualified for the position and because they can't accept the truth they are trying to be victims, sorry but that's too easy.

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Did you actually read the report or at least understand what it is about? discrimination does not mean that there are no foreigers getting jobs - that's quite obviously not the case as there are thousands on this forum alone. It means that those Indians you see are likely to not be treated the same and typically worse than the locals.
Are you seriously believing this is not the case?
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Old 09.11.2012, 09:13
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

Foreigners complain about racism. The Swiss complain about being replaced by cheaper Germans
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Old 09.11.2012, 09:24
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Is this actually a surprise where a local custom is to include a picture, your civil status, birthday, and sometimes even more personal information on your CV? Or job descriptions that state they are looking for a certain sex or specific age range?

Of course there is discrimination!
Sorry but I never heard about this "local custom", my boyfriend didn't put any picture (as he didn't apply for a top model position), any civil status and anything personal on his CV except nationality, which is normal if you want to get sponsored by the company for a visa and professional history. You don't need to follow the imaginary customs if you don't feel they are fair.
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Old 09.11.2012, 09:25
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

I suggest you be careful when crying "racism". If you expect to be taken seriously without solid proof your claim is nothing more than hot air. And I mean very solid and very hot

Just because of an article or someone didn't get hired for a position they were qualified for is not racism. Even to claim discrimination in a case like that is a little far fetched. No matter from which background, how your name is spelled or the color of your skin.

There are lots of Swiss that are jobless that are very well qualified for many of these positions the foreigners are claiming racism and discrimination.
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Old 09.11.2012, 09:30
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Is this actually a surprise where a local custom is to include a picture, your civil status, birthday, and sometimes even more personal information on your CV? Or job descriptions that state they are looking for a certain sex or specific age range?

Of course there is discrimination!
Custom? Get off your high-horse.

That is called business etiquette. If you are serious about applying for a job then you add any relevant information to show you do qualify. If you don't, then it is like shooting yourself in the foot. This is standard here as well as many other places. Put yourself in their shoes, would you want to call someone in just to find out how old they are? Waste of time.
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Old 09.11.2012, 09:30
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Re: Qualified immigrants face job discrimination

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Sorry but I never heard about this "local custom", my boyfriend didn't put any picture (as he didn't apply for a top model position), any civil status and anything personal on his CV except nationality, which is normal if you want to get sponsored by the company for a visa and professional history. You don't need to follow the imaginary customs if you don't feel they are fair.
Do you realize how...eerrmm...sorry to say it..naive you seem? You draw conclusions based on a singular case "my boyfriend did-that" and "my boyfriend's boss is that"...what do you think gives you the right to dismiss people's experiences like that?
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