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Old 27.11.2012, 01:04
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And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

And the worst is, the judge believes that after 25 years living in Switzerland, it can't be one. Like chopping at one's teen child with an axe is a regular Swiss modus operandi:
http://www.24heures.ch/suisse/faits-...story/22211603 (it's in French, there's probably a Zurich paper with the German version). So now even Switzerland has this kind of troubling behaviour and the authorities refuse to open their eyes to this medieval custom. "Honour" killings deserve life sentences, nothing less. They always target the vulnerable, and are such an insult to Western progressive thinking that it makes me sick. Feminists, I am with you in vilifying these murderous morons.

And I know, there's going to be at least one post here defending it because "it's Pakistani and you can't understand" or "that's racist!" or some similar form of rubbish. I fart in your general direction.
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Old 27.11.2012, 05:20
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

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And the worst is, the judge believes that after 25 years living in Switzerland, it can't be one. Like chopping at one's teen child with an axe is a regular Swiss modus operandi:
http://www.24heures.ch/suisse/faits-...story/22211603 (it's in French, there's probably a Zurich paper with the German version). So now even Switzerland has this kind of troubling behaviour and the authorities refuse to open their eyes to this medieval custom. "Honour" killings deserve life sentences, nothing less. They always target the vulnerable, and are such an insult to Western progressive thinking that it makes me sick. Feminists, I am with you in vilifying these murderous morons.

And I know, there's going to be at least one post here defending it because "it's Pakistani and you can't understand" or "that's racist!" or some similar form of rubbish. I fart in your general direction.
I agree with most of what you are saying here, with the exception of the fart comment.

Be careful when fighting the lions that you don't become one yourself.

Kind regards.
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Old 27.11.2012, 05:34
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

I think this is the article in English ( The Local ):

http://www.thelocal.ch/page/view/3118

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The 53-year-old Pakistani man who killed his 16-year-old daughter, Swera, at their home in Zurich-Höngg in 2010 has been sentenced to 17 years imprisonment.

The murder took place on May 10th 2010, not long after 16-year-old Swera had been picked up at a Zurich police station by her parents. She had been caught stealing cigarettes.

The man struck his daughter 19 times with the axe: 12 times with the blade and seven with the blunt end.

The teenager did not die instantly, but lay on the ground in agonizing pain for several minutes until her life finally slipped away.

After washing his hands, Scheragha R left the apartment and called his wife to say he had killed his daughter. Fifteen minutes later, he called the police, who arrested him shortly after near his apartment.
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Old 27.11.2012, 06:35
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

Couldn't have been an honor killing, the father was obviously upset about his daughter smoking ....
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Old 27.11.2012, 06:59
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

I will never be able to understand how any parent could harm their own child, and am pretty sure I am never going to even try thinking about how a parent could do such a thing. an absolute tragedy.
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Old 27.11.2012, 06:59
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

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...So now even Switzerland has this kind of troubling behaviour and the authorities refuse to open their eyes to this medieval custom. "Honour" killings deserve life sentences, nothing less...
It was decided by the court it wasn't an honour killing - which is murder, 10 years to life. So he got the 10-20 years (17 in this case) for killing. This was reduced to 13 years after appeal, on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Unless you read the court transcript, it's impossible to determine if the judge was overly lenient. It's definitely impossible from news reports that select the most juicy slant they can find.

The defence said it was a crime of passion - attracting 4.5 years. The prosecution wanted 20 years for murder, as he argued it was an honour killing. The judge decided it was neither. Legally, it seems to me, this wasn't an honour killing, so the headlines saying it was are incorrect - even if they are all over the web.

If the man had been of Western European origin, would the question have even arisen?

Edit: it was decided that it was murder, rather than killing. Nonetheless, the sentence is within that range, so it could be the same penalty as an honour killing, which is also considered murder.
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Last edited by NotAllThere; 27.11.2012 at 11:23.
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Old 27.11.2012, 07:12
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

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The defence said it was a crime of passion - attracting 4.5 years. The prosecution wanted 20 years for murder, as he argued it was an honour killing. The judge decided it was neither. Legally, it seems to me, this wasn't an honour killing, so the headlines saying it was are incorrect - even if they are all over the web.

If the man had been of Western European origin, would the question have even arisen?
The judge decided it wasn't an honour killing because: "Someone who has lived 25 years in Switzerland can no longer claim to cultural particularities of the country of origin," she said.". Which is absolute crap, because Pakistani (and many others of course) migrants living in the UK since the 50's are still very culturally strong and identifiable, just as many expat Brits still are after 25 years in other countries, and I find the notion pretty silly.

To me the obvious reason the question has arisen is because of the frequency of this nature of murder in parts of the world, and it's associated traits. This fits in perfectly with a 'stereotypical' honour crime:
  • Motive: wayward daughter in strict islamic household involving unapproved boyfriends.
  • Three weeks before the tragedy, the father had already tried to end the life of the adolescent.
  • Suspect commits the horrific act, hacking his daughter to death with an axe, then calmly calls the police, and then goes to a bus stop to wait for them implying a full prior sense of knowledge of the actions and consequences.
The point is, regardless of the judges final decision, that this fits the profile of an 'honour killing' as the media has reported it for decades, and for me racism or religious persecution shouldn't even come into it.

However, the thread title "...and so it begins" is possibly guilty of being a tad melodramatic and inciting the wrong kind of discussion.

Last edited by Richdog; 27.11.2012 at 08:51.
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Old 27.11.2012, 07:40
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

Just before this thread will go down the typical Muslim bashing way it surely will:

- I find it bizarre that the murder has not been considered an honour killing
- I find it surprising that this should be the first case in Switzerland given the amount of immigration from certain areas.

That last comment means: Honor killings are not some Pakistani specialty. There have been cases in Germany by Kurds, there has been a Sikh in the UK and so on. So honor killings:
- are not specific to Muslims. Most religions have cases of them.
- are not specific to a country or even region. From Albania over central Asia to parts of Africa are they a reality today.

If you have an Albanian friend or coworker - ask him what the Kanun is and if it means aything to him... you'd be surprised to hear that in the middle of Europe you will find medieval originally christian traditions still alive that lead to blood feuds... including murder to reinstall your families honor.
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Old 27.11.2012, 07:45
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

Oh no, here we go again. Not another religious thread.

For those who wish to discuss religion please go to a dedicated religious site.
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:00
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

This is about killing a person. Murder.

If the person who did the killing is/was of "diminished responsibility" then that means (to my mind anyway) that they are no longer fit to live in society, and need to be locked away. Because they could do that again.
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:07
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

Another check on the "let's not turn this into a Muslim-bashing thread": honour killings existed before the rise of Islam.
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:11
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

So, according to the Extra-Judicial Court of Common Sense Innit Mate (formerly known as EF), wog murder is several degrees worse than murder, even if the judge who actually heard all the evidence that didn't make it into Blick am Abend says that it isn't.

Glad we've got that cleared up, then.
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:16
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

I personally don't see how diminshed responsibility comes into it. He seems to have known exactly what he was doing right down to the fact that he called the police and waited for them to come and pick him up.

And no matter how you want to label it, this was out and out murder. There's no honor or anything else attached to it. I think the judge was right not to label it as other than it was. If it's made clear that there's nothing honorable about it, maybe people who believe such rubbish will get the message. Murder is murder, don't call it anything else.
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:19
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

A murder is a murder no matter the reasons behind it. What bugs me is the fact that it was the second attempt and was a first degree murder as it was planed.

Yes, he should has had life time sentence.
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:25
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

It seems the father brought more shame to his family than his daughter. Where's the honor in that?
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:37
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

Rest in peace young woman, you deserved better.
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:39
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

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It seems the father brought more shame to his family than his daughter. Where's the honor in that?
That is something I have never understood, how can murdering your own child be considered honourable??
There was a case recently, in Pakistan, where parents killed their daughter by pouring acid over her....for looking at a boy!
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:39
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

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...Feminists, I am with you in vilifying these murderous morons...


Why would a woman who is against "honour killings" be a feminist de facto?
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Old 27.11.2012, 08:51
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

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A murder is a murder no matter the reasons behind it. What bugs me is the fact that it was the second attempt and was a first degree murder as it was planed.

Yes, he should has had life time sentence.

I'm not disagreeing with you but the court found it couldn't be proven that he tried to kill her a few weeks earlier so that didn't come into consideration for the sentence
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Old 27.11.2012, 09:10
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Re: And so it begins... Pakistani honour killing comes to Switzerland

4 years in jail for murdering someone with an axe?

Feck in neighboring countries you get more for downloading illegally a mp3 from britney spears!!!!

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