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Old 29.01.2013, 22:25
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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Yes, no reason to be concerned about an ultra-right-wing political party that happens to be the largest in Switzerland, because who would ever dream of venturing past one's cantonal borders?

It's 2013, Wolli. Zürich is part of Switzerland now.

And Adolf Hitler was an Ashkenazi Jew. Your point is?
And in Switzerland, the SVP is below 28%. The SVP is not even represented in many City governments. And SVP chaps like Blocher, Ueli Maurer, Giezendanner are NOT racists. I of course know that an influential SVP man in Zürich clearly IS a racist, but dislike generalisations. The chap I mean is citizen of the City of Zürich, but lives in Kloten. He for many years worked in aircargo but now is a "corporate advisor". He works togeter with Mauro Tuena, a nice chap who originates from the Val Poschiavo.

I do not have a point, but do not see any point in the statement above about Tina Turner and the SVP, as the SVP is not THE government party, but just one of the major parties. Btw, their share in the Senate (Ständerat) is even below

Adolf Hitler on the basis of Jewish law was NOT a Jew as his father and mother were not Jew, even if some folks farther back by two or three generations possibly were. The Jews in the Elsass btw. generally rather are Sephardi as originating from Jews who had to flee from Andalussiya
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Old 29.01.2013, 22:30
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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US Republican Party -- right wing.
UK Conservative Party -- right wng.
Australian Liberal Party -- right wing.

Would you really place the SVP in the same political basket as the three parties I list above?
No, I view the US Republicans as more right-wing than the SVP.

Unlike you, I've had the opportunity to vote for or against both.

Speak of what you know.

Tom
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  #83  
Old 29.01.2013, 22:39
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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UK Conservative Party -- right wng.
Well that hardy applies to the soft wet fools in power in the UK today, if you were talking about Mrs Thatcher, you might have a point.
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  #84  
Old 29.01.2013, 22:40
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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US Republican Party -- right wing.
UK Conservative Party -- right wng.
Australian Liberal Party -- right wing.
Any political party that advocates outright bans on people living in "their" country because of their religion or the colour of their skin -- far- or ultra-right wing.

Would you really place the SVP in the same political basket as the three parties I list above? Do you really fail to see the parallels with the National Socialist German Workers Party of the early 1930s, which grew from 60 members in 1920 to over 8 million by appealing to a broad base? Do you really think Wolli's dear old Aunt Clara got it all wrong?

Well, the US Republican Party no longer is the party of Messrs Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford, but has, to a good extent, become Blocherite, or even worse (Mrs Palin <> Fredy Heer)
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Old 29.01.2013, 22:56
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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Well that hardy applies to the soft wet fools in power in the UK today, if you were talking about Mrs Thatcher, you might have a point.
Well, Mr Cameron is a populist. He will dance Tango or ChaChaCha if that promises to bring him 23 votes
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Old 29.01.2013, 23:18
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

whatever the SVP´s more aggregate political agenda might be, that sign and the related movement are inexcusable.
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  #87  
Old 29.01.2013, 23:44
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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No, I view the US Republicans as more right-wing than the SVP.

Tom
Fascinating to hear your opinion, Tom. It's not one that's shared by the majority of intelligent, free-thinking individuals.

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Unlike you, I've had the opportunity to vote for or against both.

Tom
I listed three political parties and alluded to a fourth (SVP) in my post. I, too, have had (and have exercised) the opportunity to vote for or against two of them, Tom.

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Speak of what you know.

Tom
I lived for seven years under apartheid in National Party-controlled South Africa, Tom. I was personally caught up in a machine-gun shooting at Exchange Square in Johannesburg, Tom, and I drove through Soweto and observed first-hand the result of extreme discrimination against black people. I think I know a lot about ultra-right wing political parties and discrimination on the grounds of colour, Tom.

So it seems that you are this thread's SVP-apologist. Why not try to articulate a meaningful response to posts calling out the SVP for its racist, offensive policies, instead of groaning at will and sending negative reputation with an offensive message simply because you can't argue cogently?

Not one of my Swiss-born friends admits to voting SVP and many of them are stridently critical of the direction of the party. Unfortunately it's a common theme that newly-minted Swiss citizens are so grateful to be accepted by this country that they strive to become more "SVP" than the SVP itself. Please take a moment to get your head out of the sand and look around you with informed eyes.
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  #88  
Old 29.01.2013, 23:49
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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Well that hardy applies to the soft wet fools in power in the UK today, if you were talking about Mrs Thatcher, you might have a point.
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Well, the US Republican Party no longer is the party of Messrs Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford, but has, to a good extent, become Blocherite, or even worse (Mrs Palin <> Fredy Heer)
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Well, Mr Cameron is a populist. He will dance Tango or ChaChaCha if that promises to bring him 23 votes
You're all saying that the US and UK "right wing" parties have moved more to the centre (same for the Australian Liberal Party, by the way) -- which makes the SVP, by comparison, even further right wing.
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Old 30.01.2013, 00:28
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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Fascinating to hear your opinion, Tom. It's not one that's shared by the majority of intelligent, free-thinking individuals.


I listed three political parties and alluded to a fourth (SVP) in my post. I, too, have had (and have exercised) the opportunity to vote for or against two of them, Tom.


I lived for seven years under apartheid in National Party-controlled South Africa, Tom. I was personally caught up in a machine-gun shooting at Exchange Square in Johannesburg, Tom, and I drove through Soweto and observed first-hand the result of extreme discrimination against black people. I think I know a lot about ultra-right wing political parties and discrimination on the grounds of colour, Tom.

So it seems that you are this thread's SVP-apologist. Why not try to articulate a meaningful response to posts calling out the SVP for its racist, offensive policies, instead of groaning at will and sending negative reputation with an offensive message simply because you can't argue cogently?

Not one of my Swiss-born friends admits to voting SVP and many of them are stridently critical of the direction of the party. Unfortunately it's a common theme that newly-minted Swiss citizens are so grateful to be accepted by this country that they strive to become more "SVP" than the SVP itself. Please take a moment to get your head out of the sand and look around you with informed eyes.
Well, Apartheid South Africa ! This means that you had the rather negative "opportunity" fkrst hand to see racist totalitarianism at work and I hope I will be spared this experience I once greeted and met a young man who legally was a slave the "owned" by the city court president of Nouakchott/Mauritania. Slavery only got abolished in Mauritania several years later. Let me admit that the shock landed veryvery deeply
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Old 30.01.2013, 01:15
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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Did somebody notice that in the Blick article, it says clearly that she is learning German, not that she speaks it? In the mouth of her "speaker":

{Der fleissig Deutsch lernt}


And always thought He/She is a She,at least its not DAS
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  #91  
Old 30.01.2013, 06:39
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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{Der fleissig Deutsch lernt}


And always thought He/She is a She,at least its not DAS
DER Star ( DER Stern) is always DER

And die Venus ist ein Planet der um die Sonne kreist
but die Venus kreist um die Sonne
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  #92  
Old 30.01.2013, 09:06
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

Wolli and Cannut's discussions amuse me and bring this film to mind....

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Old 30.01.2013, 10:35
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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US Republican Party -- right wing.
UK Conservative Party -- right wng.
Australian Liberal Party -- right wing.
Any political party that advocates outright bans on people living in "their" country because of their religion or the colour of their skin -- far- or ultra-right wing.
I have never voted for the SVP, and don't plan to ever vote for them. In fact I often have loud arguments with SVP voters (family members / friends) for various reasons, but if you claim that the SVP "advocates outright bans on people living in 'their' country because of their religion or the colour of their skin", that is outright defamation. The official stance is that they want Switzerland to decide who lives in "their" country based on economic needs, democratic decision and citizenship (citizenship is already the case in all EU countries). You can agree with that or not, but calling it "ultra-right wing" is just lunatic. As pointed out before by others, how would being racist (as an organisation) go together with having members of different skin colour?

Are their nutters in the SVP who are "ultra-right" by your definition? Yes, of course. There are also people in the SPS who really want to abolish capitalism, but that's an absolute minority.

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Would you really place the SVP in the same political basket as the three parties I list above? Do you really fail to see the parallels with the National Socialist German Workers Party of the early 1930s, which grew from 60 members in 1920 to over 8 million by appealing to a broad base? Do you really think Wolli's dear old Aunt Clara got it all wrong?
The kind of propaganda is common, but that's it. Do you fail to see the difference?

So could you please care to explain what makes the SVP (as organisation, not the odd backbencher) similar to the NSDAP?

And if the SVP is ultra-right wing to you, what exactly is the PNOS?
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Old 30.01.2013, 10:35
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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{Der fleissig Deutsch lernt}


And always thought He/She is a She,at least its not DAS
In German a young woman is neutered . Whe she becomes a star, she becomes a guy
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Old 30.01.2013, 10:53
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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You're all saying that the US and UK "right wing" parties have moved more to the centre (same for the Australian Liberal Party, by the way) -- which makes the SVP, by comparison, even further right wing.
I don't know about the UK, but in the US the Republicans have been continually moving more right ever since Eisenhower (as Wolli pointed out), to say that they have been moving more to the center is absurd.

Tom
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Old 30.01.2013, 10:59
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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I don't know about the UK, but in the US the Republicans have been continually moving more right ever since Eisenhower (as Wolli pointed out), to say that they have been moving more to the center is absurd.

Tom
I haven't seen any republican propaganda openly plastering blacks, muslims and foreigners in a negative light.
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Old 30.01.2013, 11:07
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

All countries have parties with strong views on immigration. Why should that be a factor in someone's decision to apply for citizenship of a country?

It's like deciding not to apply because a country allows gingers to roam freely in the streets, or because pina colada ice cream isn't readily available.

Nowhere is paradise, but at least Switzerland offers low taxes.
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Old 30.01.2013, 11:11
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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I haven't seen any republican propaganda openly plastering blacks, muslims and foreigners in a negative light.
Then you haven't been looking very hard.
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Old 30.01.2013, 11:27
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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I have never voted for the SVP, and don't plan to ever vote for them. In fact I often have loud arguments with SVP voters (family members / friends) for various reasons, but if you claim that the SVP "advocates outright bans on people living in 'their' country because of their religion or the colour of their skin", that is outright defamation. The official stance is that they want Switzerland to decide who lives in "their" country based on economic needs, democratic decision and citizenship (citizenship is already the case in all EU countries). You can agree with that or not, but calling it "ultra-right wing" is just lunatic. As pointed out before by others, how would being racist (as an organisation) go together with having members of different skin colour?

Are their nutters in the SVP who are "ultra-right" by your definition? Yes, of course. There are also people in the SPS who really want to abolish capitalism, but that's an absolute minority.


The kind of propaganda is common, but that's it. Do you fail to see the difference?

So could you please care to explain what makes the SVP (as organisation, not the odd backbencher) similar to the NSDAP?

And if the SVP is ultra-right wing to you, what exactly is the PNOS?
At last, a sensibly-written, well-considered response. I don't agree with you, but I appreciate your reasoning.

To answer a couple of your points, the Nazi party counted Jews, foreigners and people of different skin colour among its members prior to 1938. Its candidates were democratically elected in the early years of the party.


Please consider my comment about the SVP's desire to ban from Switzerland those who do not conform with the "ideal" in the light of recent, very public SVP campaigns:
  • kick out the black sheep
  • ban new minarets
  • Ivan the (Balkan) rapist
  • no black people in Aargau.
I'm not prepared to believe that none of the above (and other) publically stated positions is "officially" sanctioned by the leadership of the SVP. There's no room for "interpretation" or shades of grey. The SVP's stance is, to coin a phrase, black and white.

Last edited by 22 yards; 30.01.2013 at 22:24. Reason: Typo --- aaaaggghh!
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Old 30.01.2013, 11:29
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Re: Tina Turner to become Swiss

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Then you haven't been looking very hard.
Apples with apples Corbs.
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