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Old 26.05.2013, 21:56
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2nd home initiative

The ban against 2nd homes in places where these homes already are above 20% which was approved by just about 50,6% now would get an approval of 57%. A clear majority of people according to opinion polls supports the decision of the Federal Supreme Court to have it implemented as stipulated in the initiative on the day of voting, Those mountain Cantons cannot have it both ways. Yes for their "Alpen-Initiative" on Monday Wednesday and Friday and No to the resulting "ANTI-2nd-homes-initiative" on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday/Sunday. . My vote was NO in case of both votes, so that I can quite honestly say that I did NOT cause the mess

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Old 26.05.2013, 22:15
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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The ban against 2nd homes in places where these homes already are above 20% which was approved by just about 20,6% now would get an approval of 57%. A clear majority of people according to opinion polls supports the decision of the Federal Supreme Court to have it implemented as stipulated in the initiative on the day of voting, Those mountain Cantons cannot have it both ways. Yes for their "Alpen-Initiative" on Monday Wednesday and Friday and No to the resulting "ANTI-2nd-homes-initiative" on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday/Sunday. . My vote was NO in case of both votes, so that I can quite honestly say that I did NOT cause the mess
It's all a nonsense really as primary residences can later be turned into secondary residences, so it only effects new builds. (Thats from Advice obtained in VS)
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Old 26.05.2013, 22:51
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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It's all a nonsense really as primary residences can later be turned into secondary residences, so it only effects new builds. (Thats from Advice obtained in VS)

Nonsense it is indeed, but it heavily effects what you term "new builds". Legal experts now will find out whether planned buildings can be administrated as "holiday homes" etc and how. The whole thing is the same rubbish as the Alpen-Initiative. Wallis/Valais said yes to the Alpen-Initiative and a few years later appealed in Bern for a highway up to Brig and towards the Simplon.

The Wallisser were lured into a trap by other "mountaineers" and now feel victimised.

YES, I indeed fear that it has a bad effect onto the construction industry and may lead to some further migration of young people from the mountain cantons to the metropolitan areas. Good for business in the metropolitan areas but not so much for PEOPLE in either areas.
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Old 26.05.2013, 23:52
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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It's all a nonsense really as primary residences can later be turned into secondary residences, so it only effects new builds. (Thats from Advice obtained in VS)
We all know that laws are interpreted selectively, and YMMV by canton and Gemeinde, but...

I almost put an offer in on a isolated property in the boondocks of Toggenburg; it caught my eye as it was being marketed as a Ferienhaus. It had been a primary residence, but apparently the heirs were not interested in living up on the mountain top all year round. It would have made a great Weekend/Ferienhaus - but much too far to be commutable to Zürich on a daily basis. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Unfortunately, in speaking to the Powers That Be it turned out that even though this was an existing property it too fell under the initiative. The Gemeinde was already over the 20%, so it was not possible to register the property as a Ferienhaus.

(It's still on the market...)

But again, YMMV.
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Old 27.05.2013, 00:33
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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We all know that laws are interpreted selectively, and YMMV by canton and Gemeinde, but...

I almost put an offer in on a isolated property in the boondocks of Toggenburg; it caught my eye as it was being marketed as a Ferienhaus. It had been a primary residence, but apparently the heirs were not interested in living up on the mountain top all year round. It would have made a great Weekend/Ferienhaus - but much too far to be commutable to Zürich on a daily basis. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Unfortunately, in speaking to the Powers That Be it turned out that even though this was an existing property it too fell under the initiative. The Gemeinde was already over the 20%, so it was not possible to register the property as a Ferienhaus.

(It's still on the market...)

But again, YMMV.
Then it's fairly safe to assume that Expensive houses, in high tax cantons will fall in value & houses like in your example will become worthless.
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Old 27.05.2013, 01:19
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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Then it's fairly safe to assume that Expensive houses, in high tax cantons will fall in value & houses like in your example will become worthless.
All such houses will fall in value even if not becoming worthless
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Old 27.05.2013, 11:18
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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All such houses will fall in value even if not becoming worthless
Possibly even a negative value, the house has taxation implications yet nobody wants to live there, so owners will be forced to knock it down, which will then increase the percentage of second homes without even building any.

I can think of many places in the USA this has happened, market forces ultimately rule.
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Old 30.05.2013, 00:25
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Re: 2nd home initiative

I saw the following article from a legal group which would indicate that the new Ordinance on Secondary Residences which came into force 1st Jan '13 stipulates that existing properties can be converted into secondary residences. It all looks a it of a minefield until the new rules are really pressure tested.

http://www.terralex.org/publication/p5312c93645

<<<The situation of existing dwellings is the most sensitive point. The Swiss government has however stressed that restrictions to dwellings already constructed or dwellings for which a definitive construction permit has been granted would go against the guarantee of property. As a result, the Ordinance guarantees that existing dwellings can be transformed without restriction into secondary, as far as the usual construction law rules in force are respected. Moreover, the Ordinance specifically prohibits abusive transformations, in particular if any such transformation results in the construction of an additional primary residence. Cantons and communes must take the necessary measures to prevent such abuses.>>>
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Old 08.01.2015, 15:39
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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We all know that laws are interpreted selectively, and YMMV by canton and Gemeinde, but...

I almost put an offer in on a isolated property in the boondocks of Toggenburg; it caught my eye as it was being marketed as a Ferienhaus. It had been a primary residence, but apparently the heirs were not interested in living up on the mountain top all year round. It would have made a great Weekend/Ferienhaus - but much too far to be commutable to Zürich on a daily basis. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Unfortunately, in speaking to the Powers That Be it turned out that even though this was an existing property it too fell under the initiative. The Gemeinde was already over the 20%, so it was not possible to register the property as a Ferienhaus.

(It's still on the market...)

But again, YMMV.
i wonder what would prevent the case of someone buying it and moving there as a first home and then later moving out so that it becomes a second home?
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Old 08.01.2015, 15:50
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Re: 2nd home initiative

A lot of debate about what constitutes the main home and a second home- from the point of view of taxation. I know many people here in Neuchâtel, a relatively expensive tax Canton, who keep a very small flat or studio in another Canton and claim it is their main home, and that the larger home is a second/holiday home- when the contrary is very clear. It's of course costing the Canton a lot of loss of taxation, and they are clamping down on it.

In Geneva area, there are 1000s who have their main house in France (Swiss, French and foreigners), and commute every day from France- but again, keep a small place/studio in or near Geneva- so they can benefit from lower taxes and Swiss health system, unemployment benefits, etc. The French GVT has recently announced that they were going to get access to utility bills, water, electricity, etc- to prove that main residence is in France and not in CH- so they can tax them in France, possibly including back payments for several years. I have friends who do this and are on tender hooks at the moment- and of course also worrying about inheritance tax or capital gains if they sell (many bought shells or delapidated houses and have done them up themselves, 4dupling or more the value).

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Old 08.01.2015, 16:02
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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i wonder what would prevent the case of someone buying it and moving there as a first home and then later moving out so that it becomes a second home?
Isn't it a bit more complex than simply where you "live". I assumed this was all referring to the number of properties registered as "Ferienwohnen".
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Old 08.01.2015, 17:15
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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i wonder what would prevent the case of someone buying it and moving there as a first home and then later moving out so that it becomes a second home?
I know of someone who bought a primary residence in Verbier 5 years ago. They recently decided to give up residence in CH so changed it to to a secondary residence. The property exceeds 300m2 so can't be sold to non residents, however no problem to retain ownership as non resident & yes there is a mortgage for several million. This obviously goes against the BS that is often spouted on EF that you can't retain a home after leaving.
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Old 08.01.2015, 17:48
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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I know of someone who bought a primary residence in Verbier 5 years ago. They recently decided to give up residence in CH so changed it to to a secondary residence. The property exceeds 300m2 so can't be sold to non residents, however no problem to retain ownership as non resident & yes there is a mortgage for several million.
Interesting. Do you know if they actually had it reclassified as a Ferienwohnung? If not, then I guess the authorities wouldn't even need to have been informed about their ownership in the context of them leaving.
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Old 08.01.2015, 18:49
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Re: 2nd home initiative

... and Verbier is run by the Valais 'mafia'
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Old 08.01.2015, 19:23
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Re: 2nd home initiative

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Interesting. Do you know if they actually had it reclassified as a Ferienwohnung? If not, then I guess the authorities wouldn't even need to have been informed about their ownership in the context of them leaving.
Yes it was reclassified all very easy and saved 150,000 CHF a year in Forfeit taxation.
He had previously looked at what would happen before the law changed, if it had not been possible to change after the new law came in then it would have been changed before & renting a flat somewhere else as a primary residence would have been the solution. A block of flats had been reserved for owners in a similar position
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Old 08.01.2015, 20:34
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Re: 2nd home initiative

I saw on tv that mr twat who brought this in has a secondary residence in Paris.
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